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-   -   Bruce/Batman seemed dumber (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=457265)

Bane Cook 05-04-2013 10:47 PM

Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
People seemed to be getting the better of Bruce a lot in this film. He seemed very dopey in my opinion. Since when is Batman like that? That's the complete opposite of what he's supposed to be. Does anyone think it would have been better the other way around? Fans of the character have always wanted Bruce to be more as smart as his comic counterpart and more of a detective. Since Bruce was holed up in his mansion/cave, what else could he have been doing but using his brain? Maybe he should have gotten a few online degrees or something. :woot:
Anyway, I would have liked for him to be more brainy, then when he decides to be Batman again he completely underestimates how far his physical prowess has fallen due to his ego, then gets completely demolished by Bane(who's no slouch in the Brains department). He gets put in the pit and trains. Comes back physically fit, but now he's smarter than he was 8 yrs ago. Instead of relying solely on his physicality, he targets Banes mask and beats him. Now at the end of the series we have classic Batman with brains and brawn.
I just think Batman never seemed to evolve that much. Like, his Batman Begins form was his peak and he never developed past that.

JackWhite 05-04-2013 11:06 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Bruce was blinded by his obsession to be Batman and prove Alfred wrong. He's not the same man he was from BB and especially not TDK. But when Bruce gets out of the pit, that is when he is back to true form. Taking out Bane's men with the bat-darts before saving Gordon, swooping down without a trace to save Blake. Even when he's in the Bat-bunker with Lucius preparing for his attack on Bane, Bruce has that intense focused look on his face like the first two films.

His peak was TDK by the way.

Anno_Domini 05-05-2013 01:20 AM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane Cook (Post 25765913)
People seemed to be getting the better of Bruce a lot in this film. He seemed very dopey in my opinion. Since when is Batman like that? That's the complete opposite of what he's supposed to be. Does anyone think it would have been better the other way around? Fans of the character have always wanted Bruce to be more as smart as his comic counterpart and more of a detective. Since Bruce was holed up in his mansion/cave, what else could he have been doing but using his brain? Maybe he should have gotten a few online degrees or something. :woot:
Anyway, I would have liked for him to be more brainy, then when he decides to be Batman again he completely underestimates how far his physical prowess has fallen due to his ego, then gets completely demolished by Bane(who's no slouch in the Brains department). He gets put in the pit and trains. Comes back physically fit, but now he's smarter than he was 8 yrs ago. Instead of relying solely on his physicality, he targets Banes mask and beats him. Now at the end of the series we have classic Batman with brains and brawn.
I just think Batman never seemed to evolve that much. Like, his Batman Begins form was his peak and he never developed past that.

Well he did spend five years working on a nuclear fusion program and he did continue to keep an eye on Gotham waiting to see if something bad will happen again.

The only "dumb" things about Bruce in TDKR were him underestimating Bane and then being totally clueless about Miranda Tate being someone else(but I suppose that's supposed to be the effect with how secretive the League of Shadows are).

Daywalker89 05-06-2013 06:59 AM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackWhite (Post 25766027)
Bruce was blinded by his obsession to be Batman and prove Alfred wrong. He's not the same man he was from BB and especially not TDK. But when Bruce gets out of the pit, that is when he is back to true form. Taking out Bane's men with the bat-darts before saving Gordon, swooping down without a trace to save Blake. Even when he's in the Bat-bunker with Lucius preparing for his attack on Bane, Bruce has that intense focused look on his face like the first two films.

His peak was TDK by the way.

Perfect reply brother.:yay:

JackWhite 05-06-2013 06:15 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywalker89 (Post 25773757)
Perfect reply brother.:yay:

Thanks. And that was just a quick rebuttal. The psychology of Bruce in TDKR is for me, the best thing about the film. Seeing how damaged he is from his experiences as Batman, not only physically but mentally is extremely compelling. It's also painful to watch because when Bruce finally returns as the Batman, you get this extreme sense of euphoria; but it's only short lived before Bane breaks him down again. It's brutal, but seeing Bruce finally make the climb out of the pit and then his return on the ice to save Gordon and Blake are all worth it.

the last son 05-06-2013 07:48 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
It's not that I thought he was a dope, it's just hard to sympathize with Batman just sitting doing nothing for 3 years. That is unacceptable. I'm able to accept this is not my Batman but then don't tell me to care about him either. Also, yes this Batman was not the sharpest tool in the shed. His money made him smarter than he was.

DACrowe 05-09-2013 01:54 AM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Well the first act is based largely on Knightfall, at least the costumed bits. And Batman behaved like a complete moron in that book. Even moreso than in this movie.

But yes both Bane and Talia at separate times get the drop on him. Then again, there are quite a few moments like how easily he tracks down Selina Kyle, escapes the police, takes down Bane's men in the sewer, frees the cops when he returns and, of course, gets rid of the bomb, that feels like the classic character.

The trick with films is they have to raise the stakes. To keep those stakes raised and escalation growing, it means the protagonist needs to face a threat that exceeds his normal grasp. In short, he must be less in control than he is in an average comic book storyline. Nolan tried to show the classic "Batman has all the answers" angle for the first act of TDK, but for some fans it is not enough.

Fair enough.

Superman Prime 05-09-2013 04:23 AM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
He possessed the same personality and intelligence. The downfall came across as physical.

milost 05-10-2013 01:26 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane Cook (Post 25765913)
People seemed to be getting the better of Bruce a lot in this film. He seemed very dopey in my opinion. Since when is Batman like that? That's the complete opposite of what he's supposed to be. Does anyone think it would have been better the other way around? Fans of the character have always wanted Bruce to be more as smart as his comic counterpart and more of a detective. Since Bruce was holed up in his mansion/cave, what else could he have been doing but using his brain? Maybe he should have gotten a few online degrees or something. :woot:
Anyway, I would have liked for him to be more brainy, then when he decides to be Batman again he completely underestimates how far his physical prowess has fallen due to his ego, then gets completely demolished by Bane(who's no slouch in the Brains department). He gets put in the pit and trains. Comes back physically fit, but now he's smarter than he was 8 yrs ago. Instead of relying solely on his physicality, he targets Banes mask and beats him. Now at the end of the series we have classic Batman with brains and brawn.
I just think Batman never seemed to evolve that much. Like, his Batman Begins form was his peak and he never developed past that.






Your brain would turn into mush too if all you did was walk around in your pajamas/bath robe drinking green protein shakes, crappy meals and random archery lessons for 8 long years.

Tacit Ronin 05-10-2013 02:25 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
What burned me was that he completely underestimated Bane even after his life was effectively ruined by underestimating the Joker eight years ago.

milost 05-10-2013 02:52 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Excelsior. (Post 25808365)
What burned me was that he completely underestimated Bane even after his life was effectively ruined by underestimating the Joker eight years ago.


In the same manner too.

Watching footage of the villain, underestimating them as a small threat, having Alfred give a big speech somehow knowing what the villain is all about and how Bruce shouldn't underestimate them.


You think Wayne would have gotten a sense of deja vu or something, especially when you consider he was "frozen in time".











Or it was just a copy and paste moment where they just switch out names and events for the plot of the story. Swap Joker out with Bane, swap out Alfred speeches, etc.




VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Isearch4dope 05-10-2013 04:01 PM

Re: Bruce/Batman seemed dumber
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milost (Post 25808609)
In the same manner too.

Watching footage of the villain, underestimating them as a small threat, having Alfred give a big speech somehow knowing what the villain is all about and how Bruce shouldn't underestimate them.


You think Wayne would have gotten a sense of deja vu or something, especially when you consider he was "frozen in time".










Or it was just a copy and paste moment where they just switch out names and events for the plot of the story. Swap Joker out with Bane, swap out Alfred speeches, etc.




VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Sigh....exactly....it's like he went back in time back to arrogant angry Bruce from Begins mad at the world.....it's like he learned nothing....Maybe Bruce was right in underestimating him though because I still think Bane is an idiot for putting himself in danger (shot in the head) for the stock exchange scene which would have signalled cliché revenge plot's early demise.....the stock exchange should have been where we see Bane's men (alone) taking out security guards like league of shadows ninjas which would have made them feel like a legitimate threat and give a sense of a true return of the league (I know they're not the old league but it would have been far more entertaining and interesting to have a new breed of ninjas (less theatrics) who are just as brutal as their leader instead of just plain mercs)......the only people who could fight in this movie were Bane, Batman and Selina (god knows how) which limited the action and made it underwhelming.


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