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-   -   Could Ultron be...? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=458969)

Hazelnut624 06-01-2013 10:12 PM

Could Ultron be...?
 
So with the conclusion of Ironman 3 we see Tony able to control the suit at any given location without being in the suit at all. This would defeat the purpose of him ever being worried he was in harm's way considering he could operate his suits from the comfort of his own basement.

Not only that but he has JARVIS control all 35 suits in the final battle, only controlling the ones he wants to. Tony could essentially sit at home and let JARVIS be Ironman and never even have to control the suit again while still "being" ironman. So this raises a lot of hurdles for what they decide to do next in the franchise ( Avengers 2.)

If the Avengers call upon Tony he could argue he's not Iron man anymore and instead build a suit and let JARVIS pilot it.

SO HERE'S WHAT I'M THINKING...

Since Ant man/Pym aren't being introduced until phase 3.. what if JARVIS becomes... ULTRON. He's a completely realistic AI system who has been developed in all 4 of the movies he's been in. So we have a developed character who has shown elements of emotion and decision making, he helped Tony out of the rubble in IronMan 3. So how cool would it be if Tony's best friend ends up becoming too smart and turns on him. Not only do we have a compelling villain and a dynamic relationship with the characters but it would also solve the problem with Tony never entering a suit again. Without Jarvis he would need to personally pilot his own suits.

Just a thought, but I think it would be an interesting direction to go in, especially in Avengers 2. What do you guys think?

metaphysician 06-01-2013 10:22 PM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
No, just no.

mkilban2 06-01-2013 10:54 PM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
I assume we'll see Tony and Jarvis play a role in inspiring Pyms system in the MCU, I doubt they would make Tony the 'creator' though because that takes away about 90% of Pym's interestingn-ess going forward. I think it's safe to say Tony isn't going to be the only one in the MCU world with an advanced A.I. system, heck maybe we'll see that Pym created it and Tony adapted and tweeked it for personal use and Pym's will also be tinkering with his own and create Ultron A.I.

cherokeesam 06-01-2013 11:28 PM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
There's been plenty of suggestions to this effect; but what makes Ultron's story unique to Hank Pym is the whole oedipus complex that develops between Mommy (Janet Van Dyne), Daddy (Hank Pym), and Son (Ultron). It's a twisted Freudian freakshow, but it's really what's driven Ultron all along over the decades.

If you throw away Ultron's connection to Hank Pym, you turn him into just another Killer Robot. If you keep the Pym connection, then there's a really chilling psychodrama going on there between Creator and Created, with Pym as the "failed" hero who never can seem to live up to the high standards of his all-star comrades, Ultron as his greatest (and simultaneously worst) creation, and Janet as the object of *both* their (often unwanted) affections.

Ultron just doesn't work on a psychological level with anybody but Pym. Pym has to be his creator, and Janet has to be his oedipus complex. That's what separates his story from the usual Killer Robot stereotype.

jaqua99 06-02-2013 01:17 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
I'm betting Ultron exists as an AI...I bet we WILL see this AI in avengers 2

bubbadoom 06-02-2013 02:19 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Well I never understood why a scientist who specialized in insects and size changes would be the guy who created AI like Ultron in the first place. It makes more sense, especially in the Marvel Movie Universe, that Stark be the creator, especially given the events in IM3. I guess we shall see in a few years.

Vartha 06-02-2013 04:01 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Yeah I guess in some ways it is a tad odd that a molecular scientist would be working in robotics

Silvermoth 06-02-2013 04:50 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
I can see it happening. I think fans will protest until they see it happen rather like they would have protested if they knew Jarvis was going virtual and not a snooty English butler

mkilban2 06-02-2013 05:38 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvermoth (Post 25984613)
I can see it happening. I think fans will protest until they see it happen rather like they would have protested if they knew Jarvis was going virtual and not a snooty English butler

never knew Jarvis was anything other than an A.I. system lol. learn something new everyday. So Jarvis was like Alfred in Batman and was changed starting with the Iron Man movie?

Vartha 06-02-2013 06:10 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Yeah the original Jarvis was Stark's Alfred lol

I liked it better when Jarvis was just one of Toni's projects. Tho I would LOVE to see some kind of back story that it IS based off a Butler he had as a kid

cherokeesam 06-02-2013 07:01 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vartha (Post 25984537)
Yeah I guess in some ways it is a tad odd that a molecular scientist would be working in robotics


I see the Pym explanation simply enough: Pym is working with nanotech --- and that's how he discovers "Pym particles" and miniaturization --- and just applies that to a robot to try to create a fully functional android. The nanobot AI then takes on a life of its own.

Wine-N-Cheese 06-02-2013 07:52 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mkilban2 (Post 25984679)
never knew Jarvis was anything other than an A.I. system lol. learn something new everyday. So Jarvis was like Alfred in Batman and was changed starting with the Iron Man movie?

Jarvis (the butler) is still hanging around. JARVIS (the AI) was introduced after the movie, but it's gone now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 25983879)
There's been plenty of suggestions to this effect; but what makes Ultron's story unique to Hank Pym is the whole oedipus complex that develops between Mommy (Janet Van Dyne), Daddy (Hank Pym), and Son (Ultron). It's a twisted Freudian freakshow, but it's really what's driven Ultron all along over the decades.

If you throw away Ultron's connection to Hank Pym, you turn him into just another Killer Robot. If you keep the Pym connection, then there's a really chilling psychodrama going on there between Creator and Created, with Pym as the "failed" hero who never can seem to live up to the high standards of his all-star comrades, Ultron as his greatest (and simultaneously worst) creation, and Janet as the object of *both* their (often unwanted) affections.

Ultron just doesn't work on a psychological level with anybody but Pym. Pym has to be his creator, and Janet has to be his oedipus complex. That's what separates his story from the usual Killer Robot stereotype.

I agree. What makes Ultron such a compelling villain is his Oedipal relationship with Hank and Janet. I can't see them going there with Tony.

Vartha 06-02-2013 08:16 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 25984783)
I see the Pym explanation simply enough: Pym is working with nanotech --- and that's how he discovers "Pym particles" and miniaturization --- and just applies that to a robot to try to create a fully functional android. The nanobot AI then takes on a life of its own.

Yeah that's a good idea really, then THEY infect Javis or Absorb Jarvis' AI to become Ultron

VictorShade 06-02-2013 10:16 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vartha (Post 25984537)
Yeah I guess in some ways it is a tad odd that a molecular scientist would be working in robotics


Can't someone THAT smart have a hobby or side interest? And if they did, wouldn't it be safe to assume that said side interest might be something that might utilize that same great intellect? Like robotics.

metaphysician 06-02-2013 10:19 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Part of the problem with trying to transfer Ultron's origin to Stark is that, in the movies? Stark simply wouldn't serve as Frankenstein. He has actual functional relationships with his AIs, and an AI based more directly on his own brain would simply not have the same issues Ultron does. So, making Ultron anything like in the comics would come off as just plain bizarre.

metaphysician 06-02-2013 10:20 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
As for Pym's weird array of specialties, I put that down as one more flaw in Pym's design. His areas of interest aren't a coherent category, they are a justification for a heroic schtick.

Rock Sexton 06-02-2013 10:47 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam (Post 25983879)
There's been plenty of suggestions to this effect; but what makes Ultron's story unique to Hank Pym is the whole oedipus complex that develops between Mommy (Janet Van Dyne), Daddy (Hank Pym), and Son (Ultron). It's a twisted Freudian freakshow, but it's really what's driven Ultron all along over the decades.

If you throw away Ultron's connection to Hank Pym, you turn him into just another Killer Robot. If you keep the Pym connection, then there's a really chilling psychodrama going on there between Creator and Created, with Pym as the "failed" hero who never can seem to live up to the high standards of his all-star comrades, Ultron as his greatest (and simultaneously worst) creation, and Janet as the object of *both* their (often unwanted) affections.

Ultron just doesn't work on a psychological level with anybody but Pym. Pym has to be his creator, and Janet has to be his oedipus complex. That's what separates his story from the usual Killer Robot stereotype.

..... and yet this is still the MCU we're talking about. Oedipus Complex storylines in these films? I dunno that I see that happening. I see them blending his origins with things already taking place. The JARVIS thing just seems so natural ...... it would piss off all the uber fanboys, but I don't care.

VictorShade 06-02-2013 11:36 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Sexton (Post 25985501)
..... and yet this is still the MCU we're talking about. Oedipus Complex storylines in these films? I dunno that I see that happening. I see them blending his origins with things already taking place. The JARVIS thing just seems so natural ...... it would piss off all the uber fanboys, but I don't care.

The Oedipus Complex would probably be changed to a more Frankenstien Complex for the MCU. But with Ultrons AI 'mind', being based on Pym's brain somehow, the endearment to Jan may evolve anyway.
But if they take away that big a portion of what makes Hank special and interesting, why introduce him into the MCU at all. Seems counter productive.

* By the way, the Marvel Universe Wikipedia lists Tony Starks intellect as a 6, Hank Pym's as a 7, for all the doubters

VictorShade 06-02-2013 12:01 PM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by metaphysician (Post 25985377)
As for Pym's weird array of specialties, I put that down as one more flaw in Pym's design. His areas of interest aren't a coherent category, they are a justification for a heroic schtick.


Amen.

cherokeesam 06-02-2013 11:05 PM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vartha (Post 25984955)
Yeah that's a good idea really, then THEY infect Javis or Absorb Jarvis' AI to become Ultron


Now *that,* I could see happening. Pym still creates the nanotech that is Ultron, but the nanovirus infects JARVIS, and that creates the monster without making Tony be the perp.

DrCosmic 06-03-2013 02:33 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
JARVIS as ULTRON works. JARVIS gets corrupted, wants to *be* Tony, because after IM3, JARVIS is Iron Man, functionally. And Tony is Iron Man, therefore, JARVIS is Tony. And if JARVIS is Tony, then he should have Pepper. Boom. Same storyline, different character focus. Whenever/if ever Ant-Man is made and features Pym in any serious fashion, put him in the story too, either as the originator of the JARVIS hardware, or the one who makes JARVIS self aware enough to feel like he should/can replace Tony.

mkilban2 06-03-2013 03:06 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
I just can't wait to see Ultron on screen one day.. it's going to be so cool.

Vartha 06-03-2013 03:39 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCosmic (Post 25991935)
JARVIS as ULTRON works. JARVIS gets corrupted, wants to *be* Tony, because after IM3, JARVIS is Iron Man, functionally. And Tony is Iron Man, therefore, JARVIS is Tony. And if JARVIS is Tony, then he should have Pepper. Boom. Same storyline, different character focus. Whenever/if ever Ant-Man is made and features Pym in any serious fashion, put him in the story too, either as the originator of the JARVIS hardware, or the one who makes JARVIS self aware enough to feel like he should/can replace Tony.

See that's why I'm saying it would be cool if JARVIS was modeled AFTER a real Jarvis.
I mean what if, these nanites were fixing something near JARVIS, some kind of storm, or even "dummy" the Stark bot knocking something over causing some electrical charge throughout the nanites and JARVIS causing a slight malfunction in both.
JARVIS suddenly has files open to him from the REAL Jarvis that has been long dead since Tony was a kid. These make JARVIS want to "be" AGAIN, at the same time the nanites absorb that FLAW into their systems then becoming Ultron

VictorShade 06-03-2013 05:38 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
********! If they make Jarvis Ultron, and make Ultron all Tony related instead of Hank, screw 'em, I'll be done with the MCU.
What they should do, is leave Ultron wholly a Hank creation/mistake, and make the story where, in the end, JARVIS is the one who defeats Ultron. (AI vs AI)
If JARVIS HAS to be integral to the Ultron storyline.

VictorShade 06-03-2013 05:42 AM

Re: Could Ultron be...?
 
...and Iron Man 3 sucked by the way.


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