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-   -   How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER* (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=459783)

Frontier 06-14-2013 06:55 PM

How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I'm amazed I've not seen an independent thread on this. Considering the levels of rage over the lack of red undies, the fact of Superman - the most boyscout and law-abiding of all heroes -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
breaking the "one rule" and killing Zod...


I was shocked as hell to see that happen. Supes has always been the least likely character to
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
kill his enemy.

Rowsdower! 06-14-2013 07:01 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Just going to reiterate this here.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
In the comics, Superman killed Zod. And afterward, he was riddled with guilt.

Now I can't say for sure that the scene in the movie is a direct nod to that, but there's a good chance that it was, given the way it played out, and Superman's very powerful, emotional reaction to what he had just done.

It's also important to note that we saw Reeve's Superman kill Zod too, or at least it sure seemed that way. And there, it wasn't even necessary.

So... just my opinion, but I have no problem with it. He had to do it to save lives. And it's not out of character for Superman, at least not the John Byrne version, which was canon for 20 years or so. Some people are going to hate it, but I wasn't one of them.


Man of Steel 06-14-2013 07:51 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
This is what I posted in another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man of Steel (Post 26110499)
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I refuse to believe that Superman actually killed Zod. My three main theories are 1.) Zod isn't dead. His eyes were still glowing and after that one scene, Superman seems normal, if not outright happy. Definitely not the way he would act if he killed someone. 2.)Zod killed himself. By blasting the wall with heat vision, his powers, including invulnerability, hadn't yet fully developed, and the force of the blast snapped his neck or 3.) Zod was actually sent to the Phantom Zone with the others, and that last fight scene was a hallucination from that thingy on Zod's ship that let him look into Lois and Superman's minds. Since some Kryptonian tech is bound to have been left over, no doubt so our favorite bald evil billionaire can use it in the sequel, why not that piece?


I stand by my belief that Superman does not kill.


pr0xyt0xin 06-14-2013 08:03 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I think the act was fine. It made sense in context and it was a great "reason" so to speak for him to develop his "rule."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowsdower! (Post 26110093)
Just going to reiterate this here.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
In the comics, Superman killed Zod. And afterward, he was riddled with guilt.

Now I can't say for sure that the scene in the movie is a direct nod to that, but there's a good chance that it was, given the way it played out, and Superman's very powerful, emotional reaction to what he had just done.

It's also important to note that we saw Reeve's Superman kill Zod too, or at least it sure seemed that way. And there, it wasn't even necessary.

So... just my opinion, but I have no problem with it. He had to do it to save lives. And it's not out of character for Superman, at least not the John Byrne version, which was canon for 20 years or so. Some people are going to hate it, but I wasn't one of them.


This is a great point. Thanks for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man of Steel (Post 26110601)
This is what I posted in another thread:


It sounds like you are have a pretty severe case of denial my friend.

SuperFerret 06-14-2013 08:11 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Good god, I agree with pr0xyt0xin.

Especially on the whole "this is his motivation" deal. Especially because Planet Clark hadn't been created yet, so he has the motivation to reconnect with his human side, and it could lead to a sort of self-imposed 12 Labors of Hercules in a sequel.

Tron5000 06-14-2013 08:12 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I didn't see such a "rule" discussed at any point in this film. This Superman never said anything about having a rule against doing what he did. However, I could easily see how his actions in this film and the fallout from them could lead to him developing such a rule in future sequels.

DorkyFresh 06-14-2013 08:35 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I think they handled it just fine...and there was an emotional gravity for what he did. It's not like they played it light.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
This Superman is someone who very much values human life. So if there's anything he can do to spare or save someone within his reach, he's going to do it. As they say...desperate times call for desperate measures. He did what he had to do, but he certainly felt sickened by it. Superman is the essence of morality...and when someone threatens people we hold dear, we'll do ANYTHING to prevent those people from being harmed, including ending another person's life.

Robin91939 06-14-2013 08:47 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DorkyFresh (Post 26111035)
I think they handled it just fine...and there was an emotional gravity for what he did. It's not like they played it light.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
This Superman is someone who very much values human life. So if there's anything he can do to spare or save someone within his reach, he's going to do it. As they say...desperate times call for desperate measures. He did what he had to do, but he certainly felt sickened by it. Superman is the essence of morality...and when someone threatens people we hold dear, we'll do ANYTHING to prevent those people from being harmed, including ending another person's life.

And Reeve's Superman and Kidder's Lois each combined to kill Zod, Ursa and Non in Superman II. HERE, this scene was 1000% more potent. Cavil sells it. It's a beautiful scene. This moment, and the Tornado scene got to me the most.

For a "soulless" movie -- it certainly was beautiful and touching in many respects.

-R

Man of Steel 06-14-2013 08:49 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin (Post 26110731)
It sounds like you are have a pretty severe case of denial my friend.

Probably.

Bruce Malone 06-14-2013 08:52 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I did find it ironic how even batman as dark as he was depicted in the nolan series never came to a point where he actually killed anyone with own hands directly.

I have to feel that was some sort of statement but i'm not sure from whom? Snyder? Nolan? Goyer?

Heretic 06-14-2013 08:56 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Superman has killed a few times at least in the comics...and every time it was a mistake. I GUESS if they do it like the comics and he is riddled with guilt and becomes all angsty, then I suppose that is better...but do I really want a Superman sequel to revolve around his inner turmoil, sadness and regret?? It's freaking SUPERMAN!

N7 Joseph Shepard 06-14-2013 09:30 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I've been someone who's defended the fact that yes, Superman has killed in the past but only when there is absolutely no other options available to him.

In Man Of Steel we have an in-experienced Superman who really has no clue as to what he is capable of (he learned to fly what? A few weeks before Zod shows up?), so in a way you could see it from that stand point that he felt he had no other choice.

However, again as someone who's defended that aspect, as someone who probably would have yelled "just kill him already".....I have to say.....actually "SEEING IT HAPPEN"......never in a million years would I have believed DC/WB would have the balls to do that in a live action movie.

It really all comes down again to the fact that he is a in-experienced Superman, he has to learn his rules somehow and I think this is where he will learn the "Never Kill" rule, you can see its eating at him, he cant believe what he's done, and he wont want to feel like that ever again.

If we ever see this lead up into a Superman vs. DOOMSDAY fight, I bet this moment will come back to haunt him and play a big factor into that fight.

gkokujin 06-14-2013 09:33 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I honestly feel that they should have had Zod kill that family or one of them for that scene to have a harder impact.

THEN the scream would have made more sense as a primal scream of I'M COMPLETELY ALONE NOW, I DIDN'T WANT TO KILL THE LAST OF MY KIND.

KillerMcQueen 06-14-2013 09:34 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I was worried about this moment going into the movie, but thought it was amazingly well executed, Cavill really made you feel that despite having no choice it was a hard decision to make, and his reaction to having killed Zod sold the moment to me, I actually think this could be viewed as the moment where Superman's views on how precious life is come to fruition.

storyteller 06-14-2013 09:54 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Okay if your're in this thread, then you deserve to be spoiled.

I think Superman killed Zod. He felt bad about it, but at the end of the day Zod killed tons of people with his terraforming machine.

There is some misconception that Superman will shut down and put up the cape if he kills. Superman has killed plenty of people when he's destroyed machines piloted by humans or aliens. He tries not to but at some point it's inevitable.


I don't think Zod needed to kill the family. The point was that he isn't a killer and was forced to make the choice. He hasn't just had to fight hard but also take a life in a very personal way after begging.

Also Clark knows he isn't the last of his kind. He did just open up the Phantom Zone.

I though it was a great conclusion to the fight.

Heretic 06-14-2013 09:57 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
That's weird...I always thought that Clark's moral views were instilled in him by the Kents in his youth. In this movie, he was just born a certain way and the Kents were mere babysitters as he awaited his destiny that we were told he had inside him but never shown.

This movie was said to have a point that people can reach beyond what they were intended to be...and therefore the point was that being Clark was not enough for this Kryptonian and that his destiny was to be a warrior (basically saying that the Kryptonian way that Jor-El rebelled against was actually correct). Kal reached beyond humanity to become the ultimate Kryptonian. That is not Superman. Superman is more human than any of us could ever be.

gkokujin 06-14-2013 10:07 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by storyteller (Post 26111835)

I don't think Zod needed to kill the family. The point was that he isn't a killer and was forced to make the choice. He hasn't just had to fight hard but also take a life in a very personal way after begging.

Also Clark knows he isn't the last of his kind. He did just open up the Phantom Zone.

I though it was a great conclusion to the fight.

no, he was a killer. Did you forget what happened on Krypton?

Batman137 06-14-2013 10:09 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Kill, or be killed.

Right?

John Locke 06-14-2013 10:14 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gkokujin (Post 26111963)
no, he was a killer. Did you forget what happened on Krypton?

He's saying Superman isn't a killer.

psylockolussus 06-14-2013 10:14 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I didn't mind that he killed Zod but seriously, after Superman killed Zod, they didn't show the family that was almost got killed by Zod. Just sloppy writing.

Infinity9999x 06-14-2013 10:21 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Man of Steel (Post 26110601)
This is what I posted in another thread:

...Are you being facetious?

And in regards to the moment, I thought it was fine. It showed that he was clearly effected by the action, and it didn't handle it lightly.

pr0xyt0xin 06-14-2013 10:29 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFerret (Post 26110789)
Good god, I agree with pr0xyt0xin.

Especially on the whole "this is his motivation" deal. Especially because Planet Clark hadn't been created yet, so he has the motivation to reconnect with his human side, and it could lead to a sort of self-imposed 12 Labors of Hercules in a sequel.

Oh my golly idk who you are. :wow: Or why it's shocking that you agree with me.

Blitzkrieg Bop 06-14-2013 10:32 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I thought that this decision was the biggest conflict of the entire movie. That's what I love to see in these movies; give the hero a real heavy choice to make and to watch how it affects them. It raises the question of "Will he kill again?" How is this Superman going to handle Luthor, Brainiac, Darkseid, Parasite, etc. after killing Zod?

KillerMcQueen 06-14-2013 10:32 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 26112051)
I didn't mind that he killed Zod but seriously, after Superman killed Zod, they didn't show the family that was almost got killed by Zod. Just sloppy writing.

I didn't think they needed to, you see them about to get killed, and you see Superman do the only thing he can do, you know the family was saved, the important thing is to show how devastated Clark is by the fact that he just killed Zod.

Heretic 06-14-2013 10:33 PM

Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*
 
I just really would not look forward to a sequel where a depressed, angst ridden Clark, torn apart by guilt, has to find the humanity that he should have been given by the Kents as a child. I don't want to feel sorry for Superman and his lowly state of humanity...hoping that he finds a way to be as good as I am. I want to be in awe of how he is more human than I could ever be, despite being born on another planet, and I want to spend my life trying to live up to that ideal. But that Superman is not very 2013, is it?


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