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-   -   The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 147 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461641)

Thread Manager 07-15-2013 07:48 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part
 
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

Thread Manager 07-15-2013 07:48 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 14
 
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

The Joker 07-15-2013 07:48 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26363089)
We'll just have to differ on that. I find the ending feels a little emotionally manipulative and contrived at numerous points. The endings to Begins and TDK felt much more natural and infused with emotion that really tugged at me. Only time I've ever gotten teary at a Batman ending was TDK in theatres... just because the ending was so perfect.

Snap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan (Post 26363095)
Yeah... not a fan of this moment in the ending.

As with all Blake moments.

Agreed.

I never felt Blake proved himself beyond all reasonable doubt that he was worthy of the mantle either. Batman had like three brief scenes with him in the whole movie, and not one of them showed he was the right guy for the mantle. At least with Dent he made him prove himself by seeing if he could get all those mob guys locked up first.

All Blake did was get his ass saved by Batman and tell him he recognized him from a look he used himself.

Monicabbm 07-15-2013 08:03 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 26363383)
Snap.



Agreed.

I never felt Blake proved himself beyond all reasonable doubt that he was worthy of the mantle either. Batman had like three brief scenes with him in the whole movie, and not one of them showed he was the right guy for the mantle. At least with Dent he made him prove himself by seeing if he could get all those mob guys locked up first.

All Blake did was get his ass saved by Batman and tell him he recognized him from a look he used himself.


Dent had been showing a lot of things in the months before TDK, and even then, Batman asks Gordon if they can trust in him.

BatLobsterRises 07-15-2013 08:05 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
http://www.abload.de/img/batendpoetryc4jyn.gif

Reposting the gif since we finally killed the old thread. That is really nice.

To me, the difference in their reactions is exactly the point. They are two different men. Different times call for different heroes. If Blake reacted in the same way stoic way as Bruce that would have rang completely false...he doesn't have a deep-seated fear of bats. In fact bats probably have more of a positive connotation for him, since they're the symbol of his childhood hero. This ties into what I was talking about in the other thread about how Blake doesn't necessarily have to become the next Batman in a literal sense, but I'll leave it at that for here.

ThePhantasm 07-15-2013 08:13 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
They are two different men, no doubt about it. But the Begins scene is so much more powerful because of that. Bruce encounters the bats and its like he's becoming one with his destiny, like the bats are enveloping him, he stands up and embraces the bat persona with quiet dignity and reverence.

Blake is like "huh, some bats. That's interesting."

Monicabbm 07-15-2013 08:21 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26363755)
They are two different men, no doubt about it. But the Begins scene is so much more powerful because of that. Bruce encounters the bats and its like he's becoming one with his destiny, like the bats are enveloping him, he stands up and embraces the bat persona with quiet dignity and reverence.

Blake is like "huh, some bats. That's interesting."

this :up:

shauner111 07-15-2013 08:22 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Because they're not the same character. Blake doesn't have that fear.

ThePhantasm 07-15-2013 08:38 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
I know that's the whole point. Blake doesn't have the same connection to the bats that Bruce does. For Bruce it all goes back to the tragic night his parents were murdered. Its like his purpose finally consumes and shrouds him in that cave as the bats swarm him. Blake doesn't have that connection. The bats are incidental to his character. Bruce's encounter with the bats is epic because it is laden with meaning. Blake's encounter with the bats is empty and lifeless.

Monicabbm 07-15-2013 08:44 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26364043)
I know that's the whole point. Blake doesn't have the same connection to the bats that Bruce does. For Bruce it all goes back to the tragic night his parents were murdered. Its like his purpose finally consumes and shrouds him in that cave as the bats swarm him. Blake doesn't have that connection. The bats are incidental to his character. Bruce's encounter with the bats is epic because it is laden with meaning. Blake's encounter with the bats is empty and lifeless.

perfect!


that's how I feel when I see this scene.

BatLobsterRises 07-15-2013 08:47 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26363755)
Blake is like "huh, some bats. That's interesting."

To me he's reacting in awe and almost boyish wonder (heh, get it?).

It makes sense too, because when Bruce went down there he was 29 and had just spent 7 years trying to find himself and carve out his path. Blake was somewhere in his early 20s, and he had just quit being a cop (his equivalent of Bruce leaving Gotham). He still has plenty of growing to do. His journey is just beginning. But now he has a path he can follow.

This might sound weird, but the way I see it- Wayne Manor being turned into an orphanage/Blake getting the coordinates to the cave is something like the ending to Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, where Charlie and his family inherit the factory. That element of the wealthy, eccentric hero entrusting his fortune and legacy to a good-hearted member of the lower class that really resonates with me. I could see how that might be too saccharine or sentimental an ending for some people's tastes, but I thought it was really touching. One thing that was consistent about Bruce throughout this whole trilogy was that he believed in the good people of Gotham.

shauner111 07-15-2013 08:50 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26364043)
I know that's the whole point. Blake doesn't have the same connection to the bats that Bruce does. For Bruce it all goes back to the tragic night his parents were murdered. Its like his purpose finally consumes and shrouds him in that cave as the bats swarm him. Blake doesn't have that connection. The bats are incidental to his character. Bruce's encounter with the bats is epic because it is laden with meaning. Blake's encounter with the bats is empty and lifeless.

What were you watching? There's a smile and excitement on his face when the bats hit him. I remember seeing that at the midnight premier and just feeling like OMG that's exactly how I envision Robin reacting to such a thing. Even the way he FLIES into the cave (like a..:woot: heheh).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises (Post 26364149)
To me he's reacting in awe and almost boyish wonder (heh, get it?).

It makes sense too, because when Bruce went down there he was 29 and had just spent 7 years trying to find himself and carve out his path. Blake was somewhere in his early 20s, and he had just quit being a cop (his equivalent of Bruce leaving Gotham). He still has plenty of growing to do. His journey is just beginning. But now he has a path he can follow.

This might sound weird, but the way I see it- Wayne Manor being turned into an orphanage/Blake getting the coordinates to the cave is something like the ending to Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, where Charlie and his family inherit the factory. That element of the wealthy, eccentric hero entrusting his fortune and legacy to a good-hearted member of the lower class that really resonates with me. I could see how that might be too saccharine or sentimental an ending for some people's tastes, but I thought it was really touching. One thing that was consistent about Bruce throughout this whole trilogy was that he believed in the good people of Gotham.

Exactly. And that's the whole point of the symbol. Is to show the good people of Gotham, the ordinary people, that they can stand up and fight for themselves and their city and the ones who try to stick their thumb over you like you're nothing. Blake/Robin represents the ordinary people. Especially now. He has nothing, no career, just himself and his motivations. The themes that were setup from Begins were finally rewarded at the very end.

kvz5 07-15-2013 08:59 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises (Post 26363615)

God I hated that scene so much in TDKR. I wanted to cry from frustration when I saw that. :cmad: I felt like it cheapened Bruce's glorious moment in BB in an attempt to hammer every symbolism of Bruce with Blake. Yes, we get it already, Nolan! I'm surprised Nolan didn't make Blake climb out of some pit too. Oh hey, maybe that's what the platform rise was for. While we're at it, let's give him the final shot of the entire trilogy too. God. :o [/end rant]

Ok, I'm going to go hide in a corner now. Sorry. :(

Travesty 07-15-2013 09:06 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
:hehe:

Monicabbm 07-15-2013 09:10 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

I felt like it cheapened Bruce's glorious moment in BB in an attempt to hammer every symbolism of Bruce with Blake. Yes, we get it already, Nolan! I'm surprised Nolan didn't make Blake climb out of some pit too. Oh hey, maybe that's what the platform rise was for. While we're at it, let's give him the final shot of the entire trilogy too.
:argh:

BatLobsterRises 07-15-2013 09:22 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
I do sympathize with those who didn't like the ending. I felt this wholeness and sense of triumph walking out of TDKR, like the journey had all been worth it to arrive at such a glorious conclusion.

I'm sure it's a sucky feeling to not like where the story left off and know that this universe is closed off forever. I'd probably be pissed too if that's how I felt. And I was someone opposed to the idea of Blake inheriting the mantle before I saw TDKR too. It's just that the way everything unfolded had me completely sold on it, and I was happy in the sense that it was a key part of Bruce being able to move on with this life. The "Robin" nod, as superfluous as it might have seemed, went a surprisingly long way for me too in terms of accepting it.

redfirebird2008 07-15-2013 09:23 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kvz5 (Post 26364279)

Ok, I'm going to go hide in a corner now.

You should. :oldrazz:

ThePhantasm 07-15-2013 09:25 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kvz5 (Post 26364279)
I felt like it cheapened Bruce's glorious moment in BB in an attempt to hammer every symbolism of Bruce with Blake.

I feel 100% the same way.

Just because you can create a parallel moment doesn't mean its a good idea.

JackWhite 07-15-2013 09:27 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kvz5 (Post 26364279)
God I hated that scene so much in TDKR. I wanted to cry from frustration when I saw that. :cmad: I felt like it cheapened Bruce's glorious moment in BB in an attempt to hammer every symbolism of Bruce with Blake. Yes, we get it already, Nolan! I'm surprised Nolan didn't make Blake climb out of some pit too. Oh hey, maybe that's what the platform rise was for. While we're at it, let's give him the final shot of the entire trilogy too. God. :o [/end rant]

Ok, I'm going to go hide in a corner now. Sorry. :(

I felt the exact same way when I first saw TDKR. The fact that Blake had the last shot made it even worse, lol. But it has grown on me in a pretty big way, surprisingly.

Bruce's moment in the cave will always be more amazing, but that's not the point anyway.

Travesty 07-15-2013 09:35 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises (Post 26364543)
The "Robin" nod, as superfluous as it might have seemed, went a surprisingly long way for me too in terms of accepting it.

The second that happened, I remember rolling my eyes, and going "you have got to be kidding me! Oh, what's next, Batman survived the nuclear bomb?!?".

Yeah, didn't end too well for me. :woot:

ThePhantasm 07-15-2013 09:50 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
If you want to talk about a badass moment with flying bats... when Bruce is climbing out of the pit and the bats fly out and startle him, and the music kicks in, and he makes the leap... THAT is badass right there. Probably my favorite moment in TDKR, and just about perfect.

shauner111 07-15-2013 09:52 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises (Post 26364543)
I do sympathize with those who didn't like the ending. I felt this wholeness and sense of triumph walking out of TDKR, like the journey had all been worth it to arrive at such a glorious conclusion.

I'm sure it's a sucky feeling to not like where the story left off and know that this universe is closed off forever. I'd probably be pissed too if that's how I felt. And I was someone opposed to the idea of Blake inheriting the mantle before I saw TDKR too. It's just that the way everything unfolded had me completely sold on it, and I was happy in the sense that it was a key part of Bruce being able to move on with this life. The "Robin" nod, as superfluous as it might have seemed, went a surprisingly long way for me too in terms of accepting it.

I don't sympathize at all lol. In fact im actually so annoyed right now im probably gonna take a break from this thread for a while. Yes, I don't see a point in talking about my favorite ending with 3/4 of the posters if all they do is hate on it.

But as for your experiences. I felt the exact same way.

kvz5 07-15-2013 09:52 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26364823)
If you want to talk about a badass moment with flying bats... when Bruce is climbing out of the pit and the bats fly out and startle him, and the music kicks in, and he makes the leap... THAT is badass right there. Probably my favorite moment in TDKR, and just about perfect.

That whole scene is one of my favorite scenes in the entire trilogy. :up:

Another badass moment I love is during Batman's return when he stepped over that mercenary (the one carrying that iPad thingie) that he knocked out. DAT SCORE.

JackWhite 07-15-2013 09:54 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26364823)
If you want to talk about a badass moment with flying bats... when Bruce is climbing out of the pit and the bats fly out and startle him, and the music kicks in, and he makes the leap... THAT is badass right there. Probably my favorite moment in TDKR, and just about perfect.

My favorite "Bruce Wayne" moment in the entire trilogy for sure. I just love how the blind prisoner starts chanting along with the other prisoners because he knows if Bruce doesn't make it this time; he is a goner.

BatLobsterRises 07-15-2013 10:01 PM

Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - P
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwhite (Post 26364881)
my favorite "bruce wayne" moment in the entire trilogy for sure. I just love how the blind prisoner starts chanting along with the other prisoners because he knows if bruce doesn't make it this time; he is a goner.

Basara....Basara....


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