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-   -   Is everything copying TDK? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461887)

Green Goblin 07-19-2013 06:53 PM

Is everything copying TDK?
 
I'm so tired of hearing this. Even Star Trek Into Darkness is being labeled that.

ThePhantasm 07-19-2013 07:06 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
I think in a way, yes, unfortunately. Its influences are everywhere, and often the director's and scriptwriters explicitly acknowledge it (Star Trek into Darkness, Skyfall, etc.)

Green Goblin 07-19-2013 07:24 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26399755)
I think in a way, yes, unfortunately. Its influences are everywhere, and often the director's and scriptwriters explicitly acknowledge it (Star Trek into Darkness, Skyfall, etc.)

I can see for skyfall, but how for Star Trek?

Victarion 07-20-2013 11:37 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
No more than TDK copied The Long Halloween, Heat, and whatever else Nolan called an influence.

titansupes 07-20-2013 09:14 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Yep.

MrMaooz 07-24-2013 02:05 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26399901)
I can see for skyfall, but how for Star Trek?

edit

BatmanGoesToRio 08-07-2013 10:22 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Skyfall was copyiung TDK for sure. Basically the villain was Joker sans make-up.

Dark Guardian 08-07-2013 02:03 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Skyfall and the Avengers stand out the most as straight lifting the 'bad guy deliberately gets captured so he can mess up the base' plan. In Skyfall it actually made very little sense, as it wasn't like he needed to get into the base or anything. Accomplishing his goal of killing M would have been just as easy had he completely avoided Bond and just showed up at the hearing.
At least with Loki he (like the Joker) had a reason to be caught.

But really it's pretty sad that you see such an innovative idea, and immediately some big movies start copying it.

Tacit Ronin 08-07-2013 08:38 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
It's not really all that innovative as Silence of the Lamb did it back in the early 90's. But TDK did revive the idea and popularized it enough to be ripped off several times.

BatmanGoesToRio 08-07-2013 09:15 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Guardian (Post 26579881)
Skyfall and the Avengers stand out the most as straight lifting the 'bad guy deliberately gets captured so he can mess up the base' plan. In Skyfall it actually made very little sense, as it wasn't like he needed to get into the base or anything. Accomplishing his goal of killing M would have been just as easy had he completely avoided Bond and just showed up at the hearing.

I agree. In Skyfall it made no sense at all. But without that "plan" this movie would have become very short and Bond would not have much to do.

titansupes 08-08-2013 08:53 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin (Post 26583081)
It's not really all that innovative as Silence of the Lamb did it back in the early 90's. But TDK did revive the idea and popularized it enough to be ripped off several times.

That's all very true, though TDK got it specifically from Gotham Central.

redfirebird2008 08-26-2013 05:41 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Guardian (Post 26579881)

But really it's pretty sad that you see such an innovative idea, and immediately some big movies start copying it.

Nothing about TDK's story was innovative. Obviously there have been other movies recently that were influenced by TDK, but it was influenced by movies that came before as well (Heat, Silence of the Lambs, Clockwork Orange, Batman '89, etc.).

Schlosser85 09-06-2013 10:30 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Everybody's definitely gotten into the whole "villain lets himself be captured to continue master scheme from the inside" bit after TDK.

Loki in The Avengers
Silva in Skyfall
Khan in Star Trek: Into Darkness

All have an interrogation room/detention cell scene where they mess with the hero's head(s) that's very reminiscient of TDK, imo.

Though I think it was originally inspired by The Silence of the Lambs. The Batman-Joker interrogation room scene has shades of SOTL, imo.

The Joker 09-07-2013 12:38 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schlosser85 (Post 26804285)
Everybody's definitely gotten into the whole "villain lets himself be captured to continue master scheme from the inside" bit after TDK.

Loki in The Avengers
Silva in Skyfall
Khan in Star Trek: Into Darkness

All have an interrogation room/detention cell scene where they mess with the hero's head(s) that's very reminiscient of TDK, imo.

Though I think it was originally inspired by The Silence of the Lambs. The Batman-Joker interrogation room scene has shades of SOTL, imo.

At least Skyfall's director admitted he was influenced by TDK.

BatmanGoesToRio 09-07-2013 12:54 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Yeah. And both Joker's and Silva's plans don't make any sense when you think about it. I've always thought what would have happened if the guy with the cell phone bomb would have not been caught, too? And what would have happened if the Gotham police would have not been so dumb to leave the Joker without handcuffs guarded by a single (!) cop who was standing inside (!!!) the interrogation room? Silva's plan was also built on way too many coincidences.

The Joker 09-07-2013 04:31 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
He was part of Joker's men in the truck. He was guaranteed to get caught. Getting handcuffs removed could have easily been achieved if he asked for it as a condition to tell them about Dent's location.

None of this was an impossibility. Same with Silva.

redhawk23 01-19-2014 07:33 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin (Post 26583081)
It's not really all that innovative as Silence of the Lamb did it back in the early 90's. But TDK did revive the idea and popularized it enough to be ripped off several times.

You're just thinking of the whole "glass cage" thing.

Lecter had already been in prison for years at that point. He wasn't captured on purpose. He negotiated for a change of location and escaped from there.

chamber-music 01-19-2014 08:11 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BatmanGoesToRio (Post 26806335)
Yeah. And both Joker's and Silva's plans don't make any sense when you think about it. I've always thought what would have happened if the guy with the cell phone bomb would have not been caught, too? And what would have happened if the Gotham police would have not been so dumb to leave the Joker without handcuffs guarded by a single (!) cop who was standing inside (!!!) the interrogation room? Silva's plan was also built on way too many coincidences.

You can say that about almost every supervillain in movies and comics. Supervillains tend to have overly complicated schemes its a staple of the genre.

Oscorp 04-05-2014 03:54 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
I think people are deliberately mixing the terms "copying" and "taking inspiration from" up. Yeah, Skyfall pretty much copied stuff but other than that, I'd say film makers take inspiration from it, much like TDK took inspiration from films.

Blitzkrieg Bop 04-05-2014 02:00 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
I get tired of people saying, "This could be the new TDK." Like, really? Don't you want it to be something else? And what makes you think that the superhero movie you're all hyped about has the same level of talent behind it as The Dark Knight?

Wild 04-05-2014 05:08 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Itīs normal. TDK inspired a lot of people.

gugumugats 04-05-2014 07:06 PM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
I actually don't mind that big franchise action movies keep getting compared to TDK. It really speaks to the legacy of the film.

What disappoints me though is that I havent seen much anything on the same level of TDK. Skyfall maybe, but it didn't really transcend in the same way TDK did. Avengers was good, but it really is apples and oranges compared to TDK.



If anything, I feel like Marvel Studios is the new cool kid that everybody copies or that fanboys want for other companies to copy (DOFP, ASM starting a shared universe, "why can't DC/WB use solo films to build to Justice League?")

Spider-Aziz 04-06-2014 03:08 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schlosser85 (Post 26804285)
Everybody's definitely gotten into the whole "villain lets himself be captured to continue master scheme from the inside" bit after TDK.

Loki in The Avengers
Silva in Skyfall
Khan in Star Trek: Into Darkness

All have an interrogation room/detention cell scene where they mess with the hero's head(s) that's very reminiscient of TDK, imo.

Though I think it was originally inspired by The Silence of the Lambs. The Batman-Joker interrogation room scene has shades of SOTL, imo.

The main villain in Mission Impossible 3 fast getaway gives the impression he allowed himself to get captured
That didn't copy from The Dark Knight

The Endless 04-06-2014 03:16 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Guardian (Post 26579881)
Skyfall and the Avengers stand out the most as straight lifting the 'bad guy deliberately gets captured so he can mess up the base' plan. In Skyfall it actually made very little sense, as it wasn't like he needed to get into the base or anything. Accomplishing his goal of killing M would have been just as easy had he completely avoided Bond and just showed up at the hearing.
At least with Loki he (like the Joker) had a reason to be caught.

But really it's pretty sad that you see such an innovative idea, and immediately some big movies start copying it.

So you're implying that TDK was the first movie to have the villain let himself be captured? Do me a favour lol

Hell Return of the Jedi did it but with the hero instead of the villain. Luke let himself be captured so he could try to persuade his father and confront the Emperor himself.

DA_Champion 04-06-2014 06:02 AM

Re: Is everything copying TDK?
 
I thought Star Trek into Darkness was desperately trying to copy The Dark Knight, and that this explains the movie's failure. They had two villains in the movie, and they tried to have both of them drive the plot but it was a disaster.

The writers said that Khan is to Kirk as the Joker is to Batman, which is absolute nonsense. They have Spock in the movie tell young Spock that Khan will be his greatest enemy, they were trying to say "this is our Joker! this is our Joker!" ... didn't work. Khan sucked.

Starfleet was supposed to be corrupted in the movie in the same way that Gotham was corrupted in the Nolan trilogy, but this was an absolute failure of world-building implementation.

They had the word "Dark" in the title lol, didn't work either.


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