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-   -   Batman 89 vs Batman Begins (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=462823)

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 01:17 PM

Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Seeing as there is a Spider-Man 1 vs The Amazing Spider-Man thread and a Superman The Movie vs Man Of Steel thread I thought I would do a thread that pits these two films against each other. For me it's Batman Begins, B89 is overrated. Probably because it was the first batman live action film (not counting the Adam West version)

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 01:54 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Wow BB must really be the superior film

ThePhantasm 08-01-2013 02:00 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
I don't think I can vote on this one. Hard to decide.

Cain 08-01-2013 02:07 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
'89 due to it's replay value and how it's pretty much like a painting in that there are so many nuances within it that allow for all types of interpretations. I prefer a simpler yet effective form of old school filmmaking that leaves things up to your imagination. As opposed to something that spends it's entire narrative giving you defined and absolute answers to questions you probably never even felt like asking in the first place like we often get today.

Tacit Ronin 08-01-2013 02:22 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Both films feel as if the filmakers are hampered by the limitations a studio film has put upon them as opposed to the freer artistic vision of their second films. Still, batman 89 by a hair, because it is a less jarring film to watch in three progressive acts. Batman Begins soars in its first forty five, meanders in its second act, and downright mocks itself on the silliness of the third. B89 is tonally even in its Art Deco half serious half campy style from the opening frame.

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 02:33 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
3rd act brought begins down a little. Begins explored the character better

Senator Pleasury 08-01-2013 02:55 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Batman 89 for me, without any doubt. Sure, it has the Prince music and Kim Basinger is not the hell of an actress, but it was plain old good fun, and well, the first superhero movie that added darkness and a touch of realism (movie is not realistic, but at least Batman wears something for bullets), also the first sh movie that gave the villain some importance, other than the comic relief. It was also the first that considered the psychology as part of what makes the character exist and behave the way they do. The action is great, the acting too. For me it's still a 5/5.

Begins was a great proposal, great tone and the seed for a whole new take on superhero movies, but it had way too many problems that I've mentioned in many other threads. Action: you cannot see Batman in action. Dialogue: repetitive, preachy, unnatural, the monorail train with little Bruce Wayne is a perfect example of how not to write any scene ever. Villains: even when Ra's was good, Scarecrow was turned into a joke, a joke that would come again and again in the sequels. 3.5/5
(Although TDK is for me another 5/5).

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 03:00 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 26529629)
Batman 89 for me, without any doubt. Sure, it has the Prince music and Kim Basinger is not the hell of an actress, but it was plain old good fun, and well, the first superhero movie that added darkness and a touch of realism (movie is not realistic, but at least Batman wears something for bullets), also the first sh movie that gave the villain some importance, other than the comic relief. It was also the first that considered the psychology as part of what makes the character exist and behave the way they do. The action is great, the acting too. For me it's still a 5/5.

Begins was a great proposal, great tone and the seed for a whole new take on superhero movies, but it had way too many problems that I've mentioned in many other threads. Action: you cannot see Batman in action. Dialogue: repetitive, preachy, unnatural, the monorail train with little Bruce Wayne is a perfect example of how not to write any scene ever. Villains: even when Ra's was good, Scarecrow was turned into a joke, a joke that would come again and again in the sequels. 3.5/5
(Although TDK is for me another 5/5).

He was a prawn to a even greater evil, not a joke.

shauner111 08-01-2013 03:13 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Begins slaughters it even though 89 is a fun popcorn Batman movie.

milost 08-01-2013 03:35 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
It's a tough one since I love both of them, but I'd go with Batman 1989. It's a classic and my number 2 favorite Batman film out of all of them.

If this was Begins vs. Returns though, I'd probably pick Begins. Begins is my third favorite. Dark Knight and Batman 1989 are tops for me. It doesn't get much better than those.

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 03:43 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milost (Post 26530027)
It's a tough one since I love both of them, but I'd go with Batman 1989. It's a classic and my number 2 favorite Batman film out of all of them.

If this was Begins vs. Returns though, I'd probably pick Begins. Begins is my third favorite. Dark Knight and Batman 1989 are tops for me. It doesn't get much better than those.

With respect I think that just because something comes first doesn't make it automatically better.

Senator Pleasury 08-01-2013 03:46 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26530083)
With respect I think that just because something comes first doesn't make it automatically better.

"Classic" doesn't mean it came first.

milost 08-01-2013 03:46 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26530083)
With respect I think that just because something comes first doesn't make it automatically better.


Being "first" isn't my reasoning for it being a classic, chief.

Spider-Man was first and I think Spider-Man 2 is much better and a "classic" of those films. The Dark Knight too.

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 04:04 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milost (Post 26530103)
Being "first" isn't my reasoning for it being a classic, chief.

Spider-Man was first and I think Spider-Man 2 is much better and a "classic" of those films. The Dark Knight too.

We can agree on that lol

shauner111 08-01-2013 04:31 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
I think 89 is a good popcorn Batman movie but overrated because it was the first ever.

Ill take Begins because it's more my cup of tea. I usually don't like camp in movies unless it's Spidey which calls for it or something straight out of my childhood (80s, 90s). So that's why I like Batman 89. But if it came out today id probably dislike it to be honest.

Plus Begins is just that Denny O'Neil, Frank Miller Batman that I love. A lot of the stuff that influenced the Burton/Shumacher movies is just not what I like reading.

milost 08-01-2013 04:47 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
I actually think Batman 1989 is underexposed these days. It seems like there's always a mob of folks looking to downplay it and it's importance and write it off as complete drivel.

But then again, I feel Batman Begins is sort of like that too. It's sort of disappointing how it almost seems like it's overshadowed by The Dark Knight and to a lesser extent, TDKR. Yeah, Begins has a weak 3rd act and some crappy dialogue, but that shouldn't break a movie should it? I mean, it makes up for it with the first 50 mins or so of origin and set up and especially that Joker card ending doesn't it? I still remember how impressed I was coming out of theaters for it after not expecting or hyping over it much.

I'd never say The Dark Knight is overrated though. There's a reason it's the most popular, and rightfully so. Just like Bat-mania was never really replicated in 1989, neither will 2008. What a great year and a fantastic film. I really can't believe it's been five years already, it goes by so fast. Then again, I can't believe Batman is going to be 25 years old!

ThePhantasm 08-01-2013 04:56 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26529703)
He was a prawn to a even greater evil, not a joke.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UULyoMdJSu.../prawnevil.jpg

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 05:08 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm (Post 26530749)

Congratulations, your the first person to post something here that made me laugh.

Green Goblin 08-01-2013 05:09 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
S*** I mean pawn...

Cain 08-01-2013 05:20 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
I was never really impressed by Batman Begins when it was released and I actually went in it with a lot of anticipation. Mostly because I was always in that "Bale for Batman" camp since 1999 when the Year One movie was being developed. In the end I was left high and dry for the most part. If anything I appreciate it more now than I did back then despite an uneven first act (Thomas Wayne and Young Bruce in particular REALLY annoyed me), the crappy third act, extremely forced pathos all throughout and questionable to downright amateur performances from Linus Roach, the young Bruce Wayne kid, Katie Holmes and Ken Watanabe, Rutger Hauer & Tom Wilkinson who I usually like a lot.

Cain 08-01-2013 05:24 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin (Post 26529253)
Both films feel as if the filmakers are hampered by the limitations a studio film has put upon them as opposed to the freer artistic vision of their second films.

This is true though.

shauner111 08-01-2013 05:30 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cain (Post 26530995)
I was never really impressed by Batman Begins when it was released and I actually went in it with a lot of anticipation. Mostly because I was always in that "Bale for Batman" camp since 1999 when the Year One movie was being developed. In the end I was left high and dry for the most part. If anything I appreciate it more now than I did back then despite an uneven first act (Thomas Wayne and Young Bruce in particular REALLY annoyed me), the crappy third act, extremely forced pathos all throughout and questionable to downright amateur performances from Linus Roach, the young Bruce Wayne kid, Katie Holmes and Ken Watanabe, Rutger Hauer & Tom Wilkinson who I usually like a lot.

The first act is perfection for me and my favorite thing out of ANY comic book movie.

BH/HHH 08-01-2013 05:32 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Batman Begins for me, it was a film I was more invested in with the age if the Internet and that plus I was 4 when Batman came out so up I guess that's one reason why Begins means more to me. Begins is such a perfect origin film too it's in my top 5 CBMs of all-time and in my opinion is the best if the Batman films.

Batman is a great film though still one of the best CBMs.

Shikamaru 08-01-2013 05:42 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
It is all about preferences. These films are essentially almost the polar opposite of each other. One is realistic, the other one is very fantasy-oriented. One is an in-depth character study of Bruce Wayne, the other has a very mysterious Batman. One is trying to be a fun popcorn flick, the other is not. One is more like the Golden Age Batman whereas the other is more like the Modern Age Batman. There is really no way to compare them. It is all about which version you personally prefer and there are less objective answers than the MOS vs. S:TM thread and the SM1 vs. TASM thread, where both films respectively cover a lot of the same ground and that leaves room for debate for which one did a better job at covering that ground. Not the same case here.

For me, I went with Batman Begins because it is closer to what I envision Batman to be. I was never a big fan of the 1989 film. There are some things that I love about it (Gotham's look, Jack as the Joker, Keaton and the batsuit, Alfred, the batmobile, etc.) but overall, I was never too crazy over it even as a kid. Then again, I haven't had nearly as much exposure to the Burton/Schumacher franchise as other people in my generation when I was younger. Mainly Batman TAS and Mask of the Phantasm were my "Batman drug" growing up.

shauner111 08-01-2013 05:48 PM

Re: Batman 89 vs Batman Begins
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru (Post 26531159)
It is all about preferences. These films are essentially almost the polar opposite of each other. One is realistic, the other one is very fantasy-oriented. One is an in-depth character study of Bruce Wayne, the other has a very mysterious Batman. One is trying to be a fun popcorn flick, the other is not. One is more like the Golden Age Batman whereas the other is more like the Modern Age Batman. There is really no way to compare them. It is all about which version you personally prefer and there are less objective answers than the MOS vs. S:TM thread and the SM1 vs. TASM thread, where both films respectively cover a lot of the same ground and that leaves room for debate for which one did a better job at covering that ground. Not the same case here.

For me, I went with Batman Begins because it is closer to what I envision Batman to be. I was never a big fan of the 1989 film. There are some things that I love about it (Gotham's look, Jack as the Joker, Keaton and the batsuit, Alfred, the batmobile, etc.) but overall, I was never too crazy over it even as a kid. Then again, I haven't had nearly as much exposure to the Burton/Schumacher franchise as other people in my generation when I was younger. Mainly Batman TAS and Mask of the Phantasm were my "Batman drug" growing up.

Great post.

I watched Mask Of The Phantasm recently and there are times when the nostalgia kicks in and other times it's just clear to me that it might be the best Batman movie of all time.


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