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-   -   The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=463397)

Kazuki 08-09-2013 07:20 AM

The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Both in movies and comics the super heroes are often perceived by the population and even by their enemies as "freaks". Sometimes they´re treated like if they had some serious contagious disease. Don´t you think this is exactly the opposite of what would probably happen in reality?

I mean, if tomorrow the real world discovered someone with powers(or even without) that were able to fight crime by his own hands, do you really think everyone would be referring to him as "freak" in a disdainful way? I honestly believe that if Batman, the X-Men, Superman or Spider-Man existed, they would be idolized by population in general. I find it much more likely that they would be seen as gods than seen as freaks that need to be marginalized.

I honestly don´t know why in comics, movies and cartoons, this idea of them being freaks is repeated over and over again. It really doesn´t make that much sense. They´re superior beings and can do what any person would like to be able to do. There´s no reason for them to be seen as inferior and discriminated.

"Freak, freak, freak, freak, freak, freak". Enough already. Do something different.

StarLord 08-09-2013 07:25 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
I'm sure there would be some negative attention.

Probably by a religious nut group.

R_Hythlodeus 08-09-2013 07:27 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
because people tend to despise those who are different

Kazuki 08-09-2013 07:32 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus (Post 26595473)
because people tend to despise those who are different

Generally, those who are despised can´t fly. Yeah, people are despised for being inferior to normal people. But for being superior? For being able to make the most amazing things anyone would love to do?



I mean...i don´t believe that if Wolverine existed i would think "uhhh, freak!". It would be more: "Wow! Awesome!". I´d be obsessed with him. And honestly, who wouldn´t?

Green Goblin 08-09-2013 07:32 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
I'd freak out if there was a guy in spandex climbing walls in my city.

ThePhantasm 08-09-2013 07:57 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
With Batman, he'd definitely be called a freak. I mean, what psycho dresses up as a Bat and beats up criminals?

jonathancrane 08-09-2013 08:03 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Anyone who takes the law into their own hands should (and would) be treated as the criminal that they are. There is a precedent: look at Phoenix Jones, for instance. Superheroes work in video games, comics, films, and other media because they represent a fantasy, or to be more specific, our highest aspirations, according to Grant Morrison. They are supposed to be nothing more than intellectual and emotional foodstuff; symbols to inspire us to good, whether it is volunteering on a reservation or helping someone carry groceries to their car. They do not translate well to reality for this very reason.

Super-powered humans only bring destruction; if I lived in the X-Men world, I would be marching alongside the sentinels because their presence would cause us to go through a 9/11 almost every other day. Living in this age where madmen have their fingers around thermonuclear triggers and 14th century monotheism causes men to murder civilians, unchecked power is frightening and repulsive. What the comics and associated superhero media rarely show is the cost of the existence of superheroes: those who died from the collapsed buildings, energy blasts, or alien invasions. That's the point: again, it is a fantasy. In the four color pages or celluloid glory, everyone survives, even though base logistics say otherwise. If it was reality, it would not be a glorious portrait: the Avengers would have defeated Loki, only to be confronted by the screaming parent, whose child was crushed beneath the rubble created by one of Loki's steampunk serpents.

Again, the "freak" angle is a gentle reminder of the medium: It is a fantasy and should be applied to real life through the download of the aforementioned social and academic foodstuff: inspiring not violence or vigilantism, but care for one's community, local and global.

Edit:

Again, I can understand the frustration with the "freak" angle being overdone. Sometimes I want my escapist fantasy uninfluenced by said logistics.

Jochimus 08-09-2013 08:10 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus (Post 26595473)
because people tend to despise those who are different

OR it could also be the factor of people not really wanting to have their house caved in on top of them when a couple of super-powered beings slam into the ground outside their house and start leveling punches at each other.

There's any number of reasons why superhero movies tend to show people as being fearful of capes, and personally I think it speaks to human nature a lot more realistically than just the (relatively) immediate embrace that we've seen in the Golden and early Silver Ages of comics. MOS got that much right IMO; there is no way possible that the United States government, let alone ANY government, would even WANT to allow a single being that powerful to run loose as he pleases - in fact, NOT wanting to lock him down would be irresponsible. It doesn't matter how many people he saves or whatever promises he makes to cooperate with the government - none of that changes the fact that the man flies at supersonic speed, is invulnerable to most conventional weaponry, can punch in buildings with his bare fists and SHOOTS LASER BEAMS OUT OF HIS EYES. Being raised on a Kansas farm wouldn't change the biological fact that the man would be a living weapon of mass destruction, and he'd be treated as such by the authorities. And I would personally be scared ****less of being in the same room with a person like that, big blue Boy Scout or not.

And that's just Superman. That doesn't cover the Avengers and the amount of damage that they would be capable of - specifically the smart*** in the flight armor who doesn't care to follow rules, the godlike being with the lightning-bolt hammer who has a tendency to plummet out of the sky, and of course the big green angry man who could reduce you to a red smear with one fist if you so much as look at him wrong. Or Spider-Man, who sticks to walls, shoots sticky stuff out of his arms, and Heaven knows what he looks like underneath that mask if he's able to do spider-stuff. Or Batman, who goes around at night beating up bad guys, drives a tank with four wheels, and tends to draw the attention of upscale terrorist types and grade-A nutballs who won't think twice about KILLING AN ENTIRE CITY OF PEOPLE just for the ****s and giggles of it.

Living in a world of superheroes would be as messed up as living in a world of kaiju or giant robots - it's all fun and games and awesome and "Oooh, look, Optimus Prime is fighting Megatron right outside our building" until Megatron knocks Optimus right into your building, crushes fifty people to death on impact and buries your *** under tons of rubble. But hey, Optimus Prime is still awesome, and thank goodness it was the other guys that got killed, right?

I don't have problems with the collateral damage in superhero movies, because they're just movies. And quite honestly they should stay that way. I think the 'freak' angle has less to do with people disliking superior beings because They're Different and more to do people disliking them because they don't want to be pulverized by an armored car that's just been THROWN across the highway on their way home from work.

Thundarr 08-13-2013 12:25 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
The common peoples' reaction to superpowered people as "freaks" is probably due to people fearing what they don't understand, what is different. And as Yoda said in The Franchise Menace, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate . . ." (You know the rest).

Look at how real people regard those who are considered "abnormal". People with facial deformaties, facial birthmarks, homosexuals, etc. Sure, you will have some people who are tolerant and accepting of those who are different. Yet others are undoubtably going to be intolerant and even violent towards them. Add superpowers to the mix, and you're gonna find people even more intolerant.

In the Marvel Universe you've got Neo-Nazi anti-mutant groups like Friends Of Humanity, who are afraid that if mutants continue to be allowed to mix with "normal humans" the entire human race will be bred out.

This type of knee jerk reaction to things that are new or not understood is a perfectly natural human reaction.

roach 08-17-2013 08:31 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Also with X-men mutants are the next step in human evolution. To most people that means that baseline humanity is dead as a species. In human history we have seen that usually the next step in evolution kills off or aids in the killing off of the older species.

BatmanGoesToRio 08-17-2013 03:53 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
I guess most people would fear mutants like the X-Men a lot. They would see them as a thread. Some other people would just hate them because they are "different" (whatever that means), like people of other ethnic groups, religions or homosexuals, for example. And some other people might idolize them because of their powers. But I guess the majority would fear them.

BenKenobi 08-17-2013 05:53 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
If someone has extra ordinary abilities in the real world people would consider them to be a freak because they are frankly. More likely than not someone like Superman would be painted as a boogie man and considered and international threat. Someone like Batman would be the police's number 1 priority to track down. Spider-Man would be captured and subjected to experimentation or at minimum condemned to life as a science project. Look at the way we look at people who can do things as simple as being double jointed. You obviously haven't thought this through too much if you think we'd applaud them.

Steamteck 08-17-2013 06:04 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
As said I prefer my escapist fantasy to avoid such. Just because people suck in the real world doesn't mean I want it in my entertainment. I like when the normals learn the hero is actually a hero and there to help and accept them myself

The thing that annoys the living heck out of me in most of these stories is that the Govt etc is a1000 times more efficient tracking down and dealing with the heroes than the villains.

Tacit Ronin 08-17-2013 06:12 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

As said I prefer my escapist fantasy to avoid such. Just because people suck in the real world doesn't mean I want it in my entertainment.
Here's a bright idea: don't watch it.

Steamteck 08-17-2013 06:17 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin (Post 26660619)
Here's a bright idea: don't watch it.


I don't but I can still comment and actually post politely.:whatever:

CyclopsWasRight 08-17-2013 06:42 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Some great posts here.

The reason the freaks thing has been so prevalent in comics is it's relatable. I would be frightened that some person on the street could open his mouth and disintigrate me.

One thing i'm missing from modern CBMs is too many people knowing the secret identity.

Stark has told the world.
Peter told Gwen and Cap Stacy found out.
Cap runs around in public without his helmet
Thor doesn't have Donald Blake
X-Men don't hide their identies.
Superman can easily be seen as Clark, Lois found out who he was easily, the cops outside the Kent farm saw him hug Ma Kent and basically know his name.
Rachel figures out who Batman is almost right away, as does Carol Ferris.

DarkSovereignty 08-17-2013 11:41 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
I don't mind them dispensing with the contrivance of the secre identity is more recent films. It's noble and what not, at least conceptually, but sometimes it's just too difficult to buy that nobody has figured it out, especially with superman. Captain America doesn't really need a secret identity, as far as I can see, same with Thor.

ThePhantasm 08-17-2013 11:51 PM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
They really need to dispense with Iron Man's secret identity in the movies. I mean its not that hard to figure out that Tony Stark is Iron Man. Sheesh.

DarkSovereignty 08-18-2013 12:15 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Exactly, all it does is create needless drama. For some characters it works. Batman fights murderous psychopaths and gangsters, so yeah, he needs it. Spiderman too, I don't mind Gwen knowing but it shouldn't become public knowledge, at least not unless they follow it with the death of peter Parker and replacing him with miles morales lol.

Project862006 08-18-2013 01:07 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
freaks should be more towards the visual characters like

hellboy
xmen
superman
hulk,etc

not stark,cap,batman lol

jonathancrane 08-18-2013 01:24 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
And the Avengers.

When one considers the death toll from the NYC invasion, the hatred of them is quite justified.

xeno000 08-18-2013 03:57 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathancrane (Post 26662553)
And the Avengers.

When one considers the death toll from the NYC invasion, the hatred of them is quite justified.

There hasn't been any hatred shown towards the Avengers thus far, apart from one senator and a few people expressing mistrust in news footage. Most of the people shown reacting to the invasion were grateful to the team for ending the battle (and possibly for saving them from the WSC's nuke). In Iron Man 3, Tony Stark was still popular to the extent that small children approached him for autographs and adults were awed by his presence. The press hounded him a bit when Happy was injured, but that was more tabloid/paparazzi behavior than something motivated by unpopularity. Also, in the S.H.I.E.L.D. pilot there were Avengers toys being sold as well as ads for them, which would hardly be the case if the team were hated by the general public.


People in the MCU seem to have placed the blame for the invasion on the aliens themselves, rather than on the heroes who fought them off, which is as it should be since the Avengers were not responsible for the carnage.

metaphysician 08-18-2013 09:49 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xeno000 (Post 26662989)
There hasn't been any hatred shown towards the Avengers thus far, apart from one senator and a few people expressing mistrust in news footage. Most of the people shown reacting to the invasion were grateful to the team for ending the battle (and possibly for saving them from the WSC's nuke). In Iron Man 3, Tony Stark was still popular to the extent that small children approached him for autographs and adults were awed by his presence. The press hounded him a bit when Happy was injured, but that was more tabloid/paparazzi behavior than something motivated by unpopularity. Also, in the S.H.I.E.L.D. pilot there were Avengers toys being sold as well as ads for them, which would hardly be the case if the team were hated by the general public.


People in the MCU seem to have placed the blame for the invasion on the aliens themselves, rather than on the heroes who fought them off, which is as it should be since the Avengers were not responsible for the carnage.

Which is part of why the MCU is awesome: no overblown antimutant paranoia.

Anyway, as for the issue of "mutants as other", the problem I've always had with it is that mutants have *no* common origin or culture. It seems far more likely that mutants would end up falling into existing cultural/ethnic categories, at least initially. You won't have white bigots and black bigots holding hands and singing "lynch all the mutants" songs. You'd have white bigots hating those dirty black mutants, and black bigots hating those evil white mutants. And so on and so forth.

The "mutants will replace us!" paranoia is at least comprehensible, if nonsensical ( its like worrying that you will be replaced by. . . your children ).

Tacit Ronin 08-18-2013 10:27 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Project862006 (Post 26662507)
freaks should be more towards the visual characters like

hellboy
xmen
superman
hulk,etc

not stark,cap,batman lol

Batman elects to style his iconography on a creature that is deemed dirty, ugly, and capable of inciting hateful emotions on anybody who gazes upon it. Batman then goes out exclusively at night and beats the holy hell out of (mostly poor and impoverished) criminals while never showing his face to the light. It is perfectly logical why Batman would be met with at best ambivalence, at worst hate and distrust.

roach 08-18-2013 11:50 AM

Re: The whole "freak" thing is getting old and makes no sense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin (Post 26663857)
Batman elects to style his iconography on a creature that is deemed dirty, ugly, and capable of inciting hateful emotions on anybody who gazes upon it. Batman then goes out exclusively at night and beats the holy hell out of (mostly poor and impoverished) criminals while never showing his face to the light. It is perfectly logical why Batman would be met with at best ambivalence, at worst hate and distrust.

he punches rich people too


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