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-   -   TDK vs SM2 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=463585)

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 08:47 AM

TDK vs SM2
 
Generally considered to be the best films in their respective franchises so far. Which is better? Or did they both suck?
SM2 was not as great as I remember it after a rewatch. I think TDK is the only CBM that has elevated itself above the genre.

Senator Pleasury 08-12-2013 09:06 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Spider-man 2 is very good. Excellent I'd say, but TDK is just a masterpiece. Spider-man 2 had some little problems for me, mostly those annoying scenes such as the elevator one or the usher routine, where a joke that should have been simple and light turns into a never-ending tortuous overstretched tour of cringe-worthy dullness. Other than that, SM2 is pure fun and a good bunch of great character-driven scenes. Not to mention that clock tower/train sequence which is simply perfection.

But TDK had everything right and then beyond that. It simply created a new thing for superhero movies in almost every sense.

We're talking about two giants here.

Spider-man 2 : 4.5/5
The Dark Knight: 5/5

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 09:09 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 26619853)
Spider-man 2 is very good. Excellent I'd say, but TDK is just a masterpiece. Spider-man 2 had some little problems for me, mostly those annoying scenes such as the elevator one or the usher routine, where a joke that should have been simple and light turns into a never-ending tortuous overstretched tour of cringe-worthy dullness. Other than that, SM2 is pure fun and a good bunch of great character-driven scenes. Not to mention that clock tower/train sequence which is simply perfection.

But TDK had everything right and then beyond that. It simply created a new thing for superhero movies in almost every sense.

We're talking about two giants here.

Spider-man 2 : 4.5/5
The Dark Knight: 5/5

You don't even like Rami Spidey lol

Ipodman 08-12-2013 09:18 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Spider-Man 2 by far. Alfred Molina as Doc Ock is just as good, might even be better than Heath Ledger's Joker. And not to mention, SM2 has some of the very best action scenes not only in a superhero movie, but in any movie.

Senator Pleasury 08-12-2013 09:20 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26619865)
You don't even like Rami Spidey lol

I didn't like the first much and the third was incredibly bad. But SM2 was excellent. So well, when talking about the overall franchise my opinion is not very good, but SM2 was.

Alas, if only Raimi had done more scenes like the one with Peter talking to Aunt May about Ben's death instead of so many unnecessary (and failed) attempts at comedy...

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 09:41 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Mary Jane was a choir to watch and Peter stayed pre-bite Spidey in his collage years for the first hour or so of the film.

Senator Pleasury 08-12-2013 09:48 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26620109)
Mary Jane was a choir to watch and Peter stayed pre-bite Spidey in his collage years for the first hour or so of the film.

Wait a sec. So you liked SM2 less than I did?

At least this time it was clearly explained why MJ and Peter had their problems. In SM1 nothing is said as to why MJ seems so interested in Peter, having so many boyfriends with either an athletic body or lots of money. In SM3 we never get to know why Peter decided it was cool to kiss another girl in front of his fiancee. And then he was all whiny because she didn't seem too enthusiastic.

BH/HHH 08-12-2013 10:47 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Spider-man 2 I swat about 10-11 years old? Unfortunately time (even if it hasn't been that long) has not been kind to it, it just comes across rather cheesy nowadays. I'd say the film is really overrated in my opinion. Watching it then and now this was never Spider-Man to me, he's never wise cracking for one. But still it's decent but it's not as good as first thought.

The Dark Knight is a far better film but I actually think its a little overrated aswell.

The Joker 08-12-2013 10:53 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
I love them both. But no CBM movie tops TDK.

CyclopsWasRight 08-12-2013 10:59 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
^ TDK doesn't feel like a CBM, it's more of a crime drama

I voeted SM2 because pretty much everything is done right in that movie. TDK again has nearly everything right but is quite a downer, where as SM2 is an upper

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 11:12 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Dude Peter was a pushover in the first half.

BatLobsterRises 08-12-2013 11:12 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
I used to really love Spidey 2. Looking back, I was 16 when it came out, which really is like the perfect age to enjoy Spider-Man, which is essentially a coming of age story. The awkwardness, the angst, wanting the girl that's impossibly out of reach, etc. All of that stuff really resonated at the time and the second film had it all in spades.

But now, it just kinda feels like a lot of melodrama and sappiness. And some really cringe-worthy lines ("Punch me I bleed!"). There is some GREAT action in this film (the train sequence is still one of the best superhero action setpieces put to film) and that's one of the big redeeming qualities for me. Doc Ock is a great visual villain, but that's kind of it for me. I don't think they sell his tragic arc all that well (the inhibitor chip thing is such a copout), nor do I even think Doc Ock needs to be a tragic character in the first place. Molina did fine with what he was given, but I still would put Dafoe's performance above his.

I still think it's a good movie, and a very good superhero movie actually, but when stacked against a film like TDK that's so much more than a CBM it inevitably pales in comparison.

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 11:14 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises (Post 26620789)
I used to really love Spidey 2. Looking back, I was 16 when it came out, which really is like the perfect age to enjoy Spider-Man, which is essentially a coming of age story. The awkwardness, the angst, wanting the girl that's impossibly out of reach, etc. All of that stuff really resonated at the time and the second film had it all in spades.

But now, it just kinda feels like a lot of melodrama and sappiness. And some really cringe-worthy lines ("Punch me I bleed!"). There is some GREAT action in this film (the train sequence is still one of the best superhero action setpieces put to film) and that's one of the big redeeming qualities for me. Doc Ock is a great visual villain, but that's kind of it for me. I don't think they sell his tragic arc all that well (the inhibitor chip thing is such a copout), nor do I even think Doc Ock needs to be a tragic character in the first place. Molina did fine with what he was given, but I still would put Dafoe's performance above his.

I still think it's a good movie, and a very good superhero movie actually, but when stacked against a film like TDK that's so much more than a CBM it inevitably pales in comparison.

This. Though changing Ock worked in the context of the film.

Victarion 08-12-2013 11:42 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
The Dark Knight. Joker, Batman's development and the inversion on the typical comic book love story put it head and shoulders over SM2.

Senator Pleasury 08-12-2013 11:51 AM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BH/HHH (Post 26620559)
Spider-man 2 I swat about 10-11 years old? Unfortunately time (even if it hasn't been that long) has not been kind to it, it just comes across rather cheesy nowadays. I'd say the film is really overrated in my opinion. Watching it then and now this was never Spider-Man to me, he's never wise cracking for one. But still it's decent but it's not as good as first thought.

The Dark Knight is a far better film but I actually think its a little overrated aswell.

I was 30 when SM2 came out and, believe me, some of it felt cheesey back then. But then again that was Raimi's approach, he wanted it that way. And it worked (at least at the BO), until Nolan came and showed that cheese is not always the best solution.

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 02:03 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
So Nolan killed camp?

The Joker 08-12-2013 02:05 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by droidwarrior (Post 26620673)
^ TDK doesn't feel like a CBM, it's more of a crime drama

That's part of it's brilliance. It's a CBM movie that has a gritty crime drama feel to it with blatantly comic book looking characters in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26622419)
So Nolan killed camp?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw...wc21o1_500.gif

Senator Pleasury 08-12-2013 02:09 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26622419)
So Nolan killed camp?

Camp will never die, but Nolan made the situation more difficult for those who used camp and cheese as the easy way to tell stories. I thank him.

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 02:37 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 26622463)
Camp will never die, but Nolan made the situation more difficult for those who used camp and cheese as the easy way to tell stories. I thank him.

I felt it was only really shown in SM2 (the freeze frame with Peter like a mentos ad) and in SM3 (Alot of camp) the only camp in SM1 that I can think of his the Green Goblin's cheesy quotes.

Victarion 08-12-2013 03:23 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder (Post 26622419)
So Nolan killed camp?

Yeeeaaaaah. For you.

Shikamaru 08-12-2013 03:31 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
TDK. It's been five years and it's still the best CBM so far IMO.

I always found SM2 a bit overrated. I still think it's a good movie but I don't think it is as good as people make it out to be. I often see people saying that it's the definitive Spider-Man film and such. I don't think it is by any means.

Human Torch 08-12-2013 03:36 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
The battle of the overrateds!:woot:

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 03:38 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru (Post 26623199)
TDK. It's been five years and it's still the best CBM so far IMO.

I always found SM2 a bit overrated. I still think it's a good movie but I don't think it is as good as people make it out to be. I often see people saying that it's the definitive Spider-Man film and such. I don't think it is by any means.

TA DAAAAAAAA! Though I think it might be a great film. The defective spidey film is yet come.

Green Goblin 08-12-2013 03:41 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
The Dark Knight gives me the chills it's so awesome.

BH/HHH 08-12-2013 03:41 PM

Re: TDK vs SM2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 26621179)
I was 30 when SM2 came out and, believe me, some of it felt cheesey back then. But then again that was Raimi's approach, he wanted it that way. And it worked (at least at the BO), until Nolan came and showed that cheese is not always the best solution.

Well tbh I didn't notice it as much back then, but now it's really noticeable I think due to what's come after it.


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