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-   -   All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4 (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=467173)

Thread Manager 10-21-2013 11:28 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3
 
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

Thread Manager 10-21-2013 11:28 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2
 
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

herolee10 10-21-2013 11:28 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 27059925)
If WW is to be in a film with Supes and Bats, make it a proper TRINITY, don't shoehorn her into a film that already has a lot on it's docket to deal with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theShape (Post 27059949)
I doubt she will be a full-fledged "character" in this film. If anything, there might be a nod towards her existence, something Bats and Supes show interest in following up on. If there's one thing WB/DC will emulate from Marvel, it'll be easter eggs and mid/post-credits scenes to set up future films.

That's all we need. No reason to bloat the film further by truly featuring Diana. She'll have her time.

The question that I have though is that is Wonder Woman the female lead that other sites were talking about regarding Warner Bros trying to cast a love interest for Batman or is that a totally different female character? Hmmmm....

FeedOnATreeFrog 10-21-2013 11:31 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
I still think this should be a trinity film.

Superman has asked the world to trust him. Would he extend that same trust to another super-powered being when she shows up? Meanwhile, Batman doesn't trust Superman and is able to subdue him with kryptonite. But he later realizes that Superman is needed as a deterrent for WW, seeing as she has no kryptonite equivalent.

That kind of stuff would work well thematically for a second movie I think. Power, deterrents, trust, etc.

I don't think it's too many characters either.

Bats/WW debut in Trinity
GL/Flash debut in Justice League
MMH/Aquaman debut in JL2

mclay18 10-21-2013 11:45 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
I think we'll get more news about this movie, probably a day or two prior to MOS' home video release in the U.S.. It'd be free publicity to generate extra impulse buys...

KRYPTON INC. 10-21-2013 11:47 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mclay18 (Post 27060155)
I think we'll get more news about this movie, probably a day or two prior to MOS' home video release in the U.S.. It'd be free publicity to generate extra impulse buys...


:palps: Yes... YES... Gooooood!

Smallville13 10-21-2013 11:50 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
If WW is going to come in eventually does that mean that there is living Greek mythology in the world established in MOS?

KRYPTON INC. 10-21-2013 11:55 PM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Having her film origin be some form of her comic origin kind of makes that a given in a shared universe. And... That doesn't bother me one little bit. (PLease let's not start litigating how "mythological magic" can't exist side by side with scifi tech and cultures in the MOS/DCCU. Pretty please?)

Smallville13 10-22-2013 12:10 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 27060201)
Having her film origin be some form of her comic origin kind of makes that a given in a shared universe. And... That doesn't bother me one little bit. (PLease let's not start litigating how "mythological magic" can't exist side by side with scifi tech and cultures in the MOS/DCCU. Pretty please?)

No that's cool. It'll be interesting to see how they do it, that's for sure. It seems like it'd be a tough sell as the film DCU we've seen so far (based on TDK and MOS) doesn't seem as free-flowing and formless as the MCU. Which is the great thing about the MCU and allows all these different kind of stories to take shape inside the same world (Norse gods, sci-fi tech billionaires, frozen super-soldiers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and later Doctor Strange and whatnot).

KRYPTON INC. 10-22-2013 12:15 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Ah... Good.

I actually think that's why you need a TRINITY film for a proper intro of WW, if she is not going to get her own solo film. With Paradise Island and the Greco-Roman gods being some kind of reality in a WW/TRINITY movie you get to also hint at Aquaman, perhaps The NEw Gods, Zatanna, perhaps, as a bit of a stretch, The Guardians of The Universe and The GLC. Perhaps even the Martians.

KRYPTON INC. 10-22-2013 12:15 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Wow. I used "perhaps" way too much.

Smallville13 10-22-2013 12:22 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 27060283)
Ah... Good.

I actually think that's why you need a TRINITY film for a proper intro of WW, if she is not going to get her own solo film. With Paradise Island and the Greco-Roman gods being some kind of reality in a WW/TRINITY movie you get to also hint at Aquaman, perhaps The NEw Gods, Zatanna, perhaps, as a bit of a stretch, The Guardians of The Universe and The GLC. Perhaps even the Martians.

Yeah I reckon a solo WW film is best follow BvS and before JL. The poor lady deserves it!! She's waited long enough! Plus we all know how great it would be.

She is a hard character to get right though. And I think alot of that has to do with her Greek mythology underpinnings. I'm not sure if that ages her when trying to do a modern superhero take or what. But great writers have really struggled with her. I can't even name the quintessential WW story. I'm hoping Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One will finally be the 'ahhh' moment for everyone (including WB's film-makers).

herolee10 10-22-2013 12:24 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Honestly, if I had things my way, we'd be getting this Superman film with Batman in 2015, the Flash and Wonder Woman films in 2016, and the Justice League film in 2017.

NateHevens 10-22-2013 12:26 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 27060313)
Yeah I reckon a solo WW film is best follow BvS and before JL. The poor lady deserves it!! She's waited long enough! Plus we all know how great it would be.

She is a hard character to get right though. And I think alot of that has to do with her Greek mythology underpinnings. I'm not sure if that ages her when trying to do a modern superhero take or what. But great writers have really struggled with her. I can't even name the quintessential WW story. I'm hoping Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One will finally be the 'ahhh' moment for everyone (including WB's film-makers).

Would the solo WW film be set pre-BvS? I only ask because if they are going to set her up as Batman's LI in BvS (though I must admit I hope that's not the direction; I'd rather see that in Justice League), it'll be weird for her jump-off solo film to then have her, without explanation, fall for Steve Trevor...

(Then again, I frickin' hate it when a character gets an LI in a movie, then in the sequel gets a totally different LI with no explanation whatsoever of what happened to the previous LI. Frustrating as hell... for me, anyways...)

Smallville13 10-22-2013 12:32 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NateHevens (Post 27060331)
Would the solo WW film be set pre-BvS? I only ask because if they are going to set her up as Batman's LI in BvS (though I must admit I hope that's not the direction; I'd rather see that in Justice League), it'll be weird for her jump-off solo film to then have her, without explanation, fall for Steve Trevor...

(Then again, I frickin' hate it when a character gets an LI in a movie, then in the sequel gets a totally different LI with no explanation whatsoever of what happened to the previous LI. Frustrating as hell... for me, anyways...)

WW being Bruce's LI in BvS is surely a bunch of malarkey and I file it right next to the Mr Mxyptlk rumor. There's no way they'd introduce WW like that. It's just so demeaning to her character. She won't be introduced as some diminished bit role in a Batman/Superman film. No way.

Her solo film will most likely follow BvS chronologically and add to the growing escalation of number of superheroes and villains starting to pop up in the world.

JL in 2017 still seems far too ambitious for WB to even attempt to me. I just don't know how you introduce the 4-5 other members of the league independently as well as a major villain in the space of 150 mins.

FeedOnATreeFrog 10-22-2013 12:34 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 27060313)
Yeah I reckon a solo WW film is best follow BvS and before JL. The poor lady deserves it!! She's waited long enough! Plus we all know how great it would be.

She is a hard character to get right though. And I think alot of that has to do with her Greek mythology underpinnings. I'm not sure if that ages her when trying to do a modern superhero take or what. But great writers have really struggled with her. I can't even name the quintessential WW story. I'm hoping Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One will finally be the 'ahhh' moment for everyone (including WB's film-makers).

Azarrello's run has been stellar so far. That can be adapted for sure. Maybe not as a first movie though, unless her origin has been handled in Trinity/JL prior.

Smallville13 10-22-2013 12:39 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog (Post 27060361)
Azarrello's run has been stellar so far. That can be adapted for sure. Maybe not as a first movie though, unless her origin has been handled in Trinity/JL prior.

It's been quite a bit rocky with everyone though. There was that one issue where they depicted the Amazons boarding that ship, raping, then murdering the fishermen so they could be impregnated. I've read plenty of people calling it out as misogynistic, or just generally 'meh'. I'd be very apprehensive in calling it the definitive WW run.

FeedOnATreeFrog 10-22-2013 12:41 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 27060353)
JL in 2017 still seems far too ambitious for WB to even attempt to me. I just don't know how you introduce the 4-5 other members of the league independently as well as a major villain in the space of 150 mins.

Each character only needs a brief explanation of who they are, just like Avengers had ("Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist", Coulson explaining Hulk's deal to Cap, etc).

You don't need an entire movie to introduce a character. (although the MCU seems to have made people think that).

FeedOnATreeFrog 10-22-2013 12:42 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 27060385)
It's been quite a bit rocky with everyone though. There was that one issue where they depicted the Amazons boarding that ship, raping, then murdering the fishermen so they could be impregnated. I've read plenty of people calling it out as misogynistic, or just generally 'meh'. I'd be very apprehensive in calling it the definitive WW run.

...Well they can cut that part out then ;)

NateHevens 10-22-2013 12:44 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 27060353)
JL in 2017 still seems far too ambitious for WB to even attempt to me. I just don't know how you introduce the 4-5 other members of the league independently as well as a major villain in the space of 150 mins.

I'll probably be lampooned for this, but to be honest, Wonder Woman's the only other one who needs her own movie. I'm comfortable with Martian Manhunter and Aquaman and Flash and Green Lantern being introduced as supporting characters in films featuring Superman, Batman, and/or Wonder Woman.

As to what you said about WW being introduced as Batman's LI... your point is part of why I don't want it to happen. So I agree with you. I do want WW to eventually end up as Batman's LI in the live-action JL universe... just not as her introduction.

One last META point... I still think the WB and DC need to avoid the mid/post-credits scenes as much as possible. I much prefer in-movie references and tie-ins as opposed to that post-credits crap...

KRYPTON INC. 10-22-2013 12:45 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Gotta go with what Perez did all around, along with Jimenez, who kind of expanded on it or at least kept it in the same vein. From her origin, to how they both treated the costume. They had the classic look, but also made it the motif of everything she wore. Casual, ceremonial, battle armor. She had a variety of looks but they were all easy to ID as something WW would wear.

I think WW has a template in the TITANS films. Though of course I want a higher caliber of actor and story. I think it actually would work to juxtapose the magical and mythological threats against a modern back drop.

herolee10 10-22-2013 12:46 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
So even IF we had Wonder Woman in the film, and if you were to add another female altogether that would serve the Love Interest role for Batman that we've been hearing about, then that's three major female characters that we'll have in the film if you inclue Lois as well, and I don't even know how Martha will fit into all of this.

Smallville13 10-22-2013 12:47 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog (Post 27060391)
Each character only needs a brief explanation of who they are, just like Avengers had ("Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist", Coulson explaining Hulk's deal to Cap, etc).

You don't need an entire movie to introduce a character. (although the MCU seems to have made people think that).

Yeah. I'm sure you're right. But Marvel's way does ring true as the correct way to do it to me, at least in terms of respecting each individual character. Giving each of them 10-15 mins introduction in a big team-up film just seems a bit disingenuous. Plus would WB then have to back-pedal and do a bunch of JL prequels to go through their origins?

Eros 10-22-2013 01:00 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog (Post 27060391)
Each character only needs a brief explanation of who they are, just like Avengers had ("Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist", Coulson explaining Hulk's deal to Cap, etc).

You don't need an entire movie to introduce a character. (although the MCU seems to have made people think that).

I believe MCU was doing what people call world building, each character is part of a much bigger world, much like the comics do. The Avengers were a coming together of Heroes

FeedOnATreeFrog 10-22-2013 01:02 AM

Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 4
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallville13 (Post 27060421)
Yeah. I'm sure you're right. But Marvel's way does ring true as the correct way to do it to me, at least in terms of respecting each individual character. Giving each of them 10-15 mins introduction in a big team-up film just seems a bit disingenuous. Plus would WB then have to back-pedal and do a bunch of JL prequels to go through their origins?

Xmen Origins and First Class are prequels. They could do it that way.

Or they could do it like Batman '89 with the bulk of the movies taking place after JLeague but with the origin in flashbacks.

Or they could do it with no origin at all (Do we ever need to see John Stewart get the ring?). The Incredible Hulk didn't have an origin story either (well actually they had it in the opening credits sequence).


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