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-   -   How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot holes? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=468953)

\S/JcDc\S/ 11-22-2013 01:59 AM

How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot holes?
 
This has been a plot device used in some comics, movies, and tv series. If there are some things that will be tough to reconcile logically, should a Jor-el mind wipe be accessible?

DA_Champion 11-22-2013 02:00 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Every time they have a logical challenge that prevents progress in the story they should bring out Jor-El to fix it. It worked very well in Superman II, in Smallville, and in MoS.

matt47 11-22-2013 02:05 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
When did it work in man of steel?

DA_Champion 11-22-2013 02:21 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by matt47 (Post 27260757)
When did it work in man of steel?

I really loved the part where Clark had no direction in his life until he was 33, and then when he meets Jor-El he acquires direction and we see him smile for the first time and learn to fly. He runs home to Martha, pleased that he met his real parents.

I also liked the part where Clark was stuck on the Kryptonian ship and did not know what to do. He was strapped down, and would have died and the Earth would have been destroyed. Then, Jor-El tells Lois what to do, and Jor-El changes the atmosphere in the ship so that Clark can escape.

But my favourite part of the movie is toward the end. The Kryptonians have been defined as a force that Clark cannot defeat using brute strength only. They are changing the Earth's gravity and chemistry. They are blasting Metropolis and destroying F-18 fighter planes. They cannot be stopped. They cannot be defeated. Except by Jor-El's technology. Jor-El says if you drop Superman's baby crib onto the Kryptonian ship it will create a perfectly calibrated black hole: one with enough gravity to suck in the kryptonians, but not so much gravity that it destroys the Earth.

The franchise needs more Jor-El -- he kicks so much ass. I'd like to see him go to Oa and defeat Sinestro.

matt47 11-22-2013 04:03 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Ah well yes. I meant has he been used to fix plot holes?

DA_Champion 11-22-2013 05:16 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by matt47 (Post 27260891)
Ah well yes. I meant has he been used to fix plot holes?

I just gave you three examples where Jor-El was inserted as a chain between two plot situations that would otherwise be hard to reconcile.

KRYPTON INC. 11-22-2013 05:33 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
He should be powerful enough to come back just long enough to tell Superman where in the wreckage of the ancient scout ship he can find the outer underwear that goes with his costume is.

AnneFan 11-22-2013 05:44 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
I hope they find a way to bring Jor-El's consciousness back. Crowe was seriously good in MOS.

The Boy Scout 11-22-2013 05:47 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
No thanks.

Fallen Angel 11-22-2013 05:50 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AnneFan (Post 27261005)
I hope they find a way to bring Jor-El's consciousness back. Crowe was seriously good in MOS.


Me too he was pretty good. I did like the krypton scenes and with him and Lois.

nouan 11-22-2013 06:00 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 27260995)
He should be powerful enough to come back just long enough to tell Superman where in the wreckage of the ancient scout ship he can find the outer underwear that goes with his costume is.

Lol!

Nemeres 11-22-2013 09:50 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
I liked Crowe and his Jor-El, but that thing they did of having him practically be an actual person even after he was dead... was lame. It was (to me) an obvious attempt of milking their super movie star's screen time for all its worth. It's like in Harry Potter: where's the tragedy of someone being dead if you can have them live on as a moving painting, personality and all? He should have been a computer program of sorts, distant and unreachable, like in the Donner film. So no, don't bring him back. Let dead be dead, for chrissakes.

Rowsdower! 11-22-2013 09:54 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Yeah, they did milk that a bit too much. I think having him talk to Clark and then help Lois get off Zod's ship was enough. They didn't need another Jor-El/Zod scene.

Also, I caught a blooper the last time I watched it. When Jor-El's holgram is walking around, you can hear his footsteps. :D

afan 11-22-2013 10:00 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. (Post 27260995)
He should be powerful enough to come back just long enough to tell Superman where in the wreckage of the ancient scout ship he can find the outer underwear that goes with his costume is.

:lmao:


Seriously.......well as serious as any in depth super-hero discussion can get......I don't care for any iteration that allows Jor-el to play an "active" role in Superman's career. I also dis-like the....."it is your destiny"......"Earth needs only your guidance..." Jor-el-isms.

charl_huntress 11-22-2013 11:01 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by \S/JcDc\S/ (Post 27260747)
This has been a plot device used in some comics, movies, and tv series. If there are some things that will be tough to reconcile logically, should a Jor-el mind wipe be accessible?

Absolutely Not!!!!!!!!!!! Under no circumstances!

LEVITIKUZ 11-22-2013 11:09 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
So Jor-El is going to be to the Man of Steel series what Old Spock is to the newer Star Trek series?

Rowsdower! 11-22-2013 11:12 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Not unless Jor-El starts telling Superman how Christopher Reeve defeated enemies in his movies.

Fallen Angel 11-22-2013 11:12 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
I don't think Russell Crowe will be coming back. A shame I liked his Jor El.

LEVITIKUZ 11-22-2013 11:16 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowsdower! (Post 27262145)
Not unless Jor-El starts telling Superman how Christopher Reeve defeated enemies in his movies.

http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

ЯɘvlveR 11-22-2013 11:19 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen Angel (Post 27262151)
I don't think Russell Crowe will be coming back. A shame I liked his Jor El.

he's actually said he'd like to come back in a krypton prequel.

The Guard 11-22-2013 11:40 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
I don't really understand people's issue with Jor-El being the cerebral half of the saving force in this movie, with a newly minted Superman being the muscle.

It's little different than Batman taking advice from Alfred or relying on Lucious Fox's technical expertise.

Rowsdower! 11-22-2013 02:09 PM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Yeah, Superman is young, discovering who he is and what he needs to do. He's just being introduced to multiple shocking revelations and Jor-El is there to guide him. He's Morpheus to Superman's Neo (ironic because Morpheus is in the movie as another character!).

I don't know that Jor-El needs to be in a sequel though. I would gather that he can't since the key was destroyed.

charl_huntress 11-22-2013 02:13 PM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Guard (Post 27262301)
I don't really understand people's issue with Jor-El being the cerebral half of the saving force in this movie, with a newly minted Superman being the muscle.

It's little different than Batman taking advice from Alfred or relying on Lucious Fox's technical expertise.

I have no problem with the role Jor-El plays and I think it's needed in the movies. I hope we see a return of Crowe too. I thought he was a very good Jor. However, I'm absolutely opposed to any mind-wipes. Never again I say...NEVER AGAIN!

GreenKToo 11-23-2013 09:10 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
I have a feeling that instead of crowe we may see costner return if they do a death of type story down the road.

jonathancrane 11-23-2013 09:19 AM

Re: How powerful should Jor-el be from beyond the grave?Can he be used to fix plot ho
 
He should be used with discipline. Relying on him to provide exposition for every film is pure laziness.


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