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-   -   8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=469407)

XtremelyBaneful 11-30-2013 05:19 PM

8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
I am a fan of Nolan's Batman trilogy, but it was particularly and definitely at its best with TDK and I'm sure I ain't the only one that thinks that. Amongst the complaints I have with the successor, this is one of the biggest complaints I have.

So after 2Face's death, Batman goes in to hiding. At the same time, Bruce Wayne sulks in his palace and doesn't come out. This goes on for 8 years. Then one night, Bruce Wayne cleans up and goes back out into the public. The very next night, Batman returns... but not a single soul in Gotham could put the 2 and 2 together?

That's why I feel the secondary villain for this film, if they were to keep an 8 year Batgap plot like that, would have been the Riddler, instead of having all this focus on the return of LoS. This is similar to BB, where Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham and soon after comes Batman, but the plot unveiled there was more understandable. Here in DKR it is just silly. In my opinion.

shauner111 11-30-2013 05:36 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
He was still in the public as "billionaire Bruce" for 5 years, working on the clean energy project until he felt he needed to shut it down. He was a recluse for 3 years.

Infinity9999x 11-30-2013 05:39 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Let's be honest, it's a little silly that nobody would think Bruce was Batman to begin with. The guy had a leaping tank for a car, who in Gotham has enough money for that?

But that's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people expect for a Batman movie.

Shikamaru 11-30-2013 05:44 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310755)
Let's be honest, it's a little silly that nobody would think Bruce was Batman to begin with. The guy had a leaping tank for a car, who in Gotham has enough money for that?

But that's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people expect for a Batman movie.

Do you mean that Batman driving around an expensive Wayne Enterprises vehicle would give his identity away or just Batman driving around an expensive vehicle in general would give his identity away? Because I completely disagree with the latter. I really hate the absurd thought "Batman driving expensive vehicle = Bruce Wayne is Batman". It is an old false generalization that should be dead at this point. Bruce Wayne is far from being the only rich man in Gotham and there is also the possibility that Batman stole such vehicle or had someone else make it for him.

shauner111 11-30-2013 05:45 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310755)
Let's be honest, it's a little silly that nobody would think Bruce was Batman to begin with. The guy had a leaping tank for a car, who in Gotham has enough money for that?

But that's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people expect for a Batman movie.

Yeah it's a part of the mythology. I always said that it would be pretty damn easy to figure out who batman is. That's why i defend Blake knowing who batman was because i think it's actually the opposite. I feel it's silly that anybody WOULDNT be able to figure it out...Blake just has his damn eyes open like any of us would in the real world. The majority of us would have figured it out. The Blake scene was almost like a "everybody is a damn idiot in this town! you're all dumbasses or maybe you're all too caught up in your own pathetic and/or rich lives that you wont see what's in front of your damn face!"

Infinity9999x 11-30-2013 05:46 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru (Post 27310779)
Do you mean that Batman driving around an expensive Wayne Enterprises vehicle would give his identity away or just Batman driving around an expensive vehicle in general would give his identity away? Because I completely disagree with the latter. Bruce Wayne is far from being the only rich man in Gotham and there is also the possibility that Batman stole such vehicle or had someone else make it for him.

The fact that he had such an advanced vehicle, coupled with the fact that he has a myraid of other gadgets, and the fact that Bruce Wayne disappeared for a solid 8 years. People would guess his secret pretty darn quick.

But again, it's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people accept for the character. Its the same for people not recognizing that Clark Kent and Superman look exactly the same.

shauner111 11-30-2013 05:48 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310783)
The fact that he had such an advanced vehicle, coupled with the fact that he has a myraid of other gadgets, and the fact that Bruce Wayne disappeared for a solid 8 years. People would guess his secret pretty darn quick.

But again, it's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people accept for the character. Its the same for people not recognizing that Clark Kent and Superman look exactly the same.

This.

Infinity9999x 11-30-2013 05:53 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shauner111 (Post 27310781)
Yeah it's a part of the mythology. I always said that it would be pretty damn easy to figure out who batman is. That's why i defend Blake knowing who batman was because i think it's actually the opposite. I feel it's silly that anybody WOULDNT be able to figure it out...Blake just has his damn eyes open like any of us would in the real world. The majority of us would have figured it out. The Blake scene was almost like a "everybody is a damn idiot in this town! you're all dumbasses or maybe you're all too caught up in your own pathetic and/or rich lives that you wont see what's in front of your damn face!"

Well, the issue I had with the Blake scene is that it was only the "I knew that look in your eyes." If he had added, "and, on top of that, you're a billionaire who could finance a one man war on crime and you disappeared for eight years and nobody knows where the hell you went or did, so yeah." Then I would have swallowed it a bit easier.

Granted, it didn't ruin the movie for me by any means. I just think that adding a bit more to it would have made his reasoning seem more credible.

Shikamaru 11-30-2013 05:57 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310783)
The fact that he had such an advanced vehicle, coupled with the fact that he has a myraid of other gadgets, and the fact that Bruce Wayne disappeared for a solid 8 years. People would guess his secret pretty darn quick.

But again, it's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people accept for the character. Its the same for people not recognizing that Clark Kent and Superman look exactly the same.

Honestly, I don't think people would guess it that quickly. It's easy to connect the dots when the end result is already known to us viewers. Batman being rich and him being gone for 8 years does not constitute as solid evidence to being Batman. And even in that case, the playboy act would drive people's suspicions away. Not the same thing as just putting on a pair of glasses.

shauner111 11-30-2013 05:57 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310801)
Well, the issue I had with the Blake scene is that it was only the "I knew that look in your eyes." If he had added, "and, on top of that, you're a billionaire who could finance a one man war on crime and you disappeared for eight years and nobody knows where the hell you went or did, so yeah." Then I would have swallowed it a bit easier.

Granted, it didn't ruin the movie for me by any means. I just think that adding a bit more to it would have made his reasoning seem more credible.

But that's not needed. You dont need to say that. He's had many years since to confirm his suspicion, to see Bruce's patterns and Batman's patterns. Like anyone should do but apparently they dont....because we suspend disbelief.

shauner111 11-30-2013 05:59 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru (Post 27310817)
Honestly, I don't think people would guess it that quickly. It's easy to connect the dots when the end result is already known to us viewers. Batman being rich and him being gone for 8 years does not constitute as solid evidence to being Batman. And even in that case, the playboy act would drive people's suspicions away. Not the same thing as just putting on a pair of glasses.

It's pretty much the same. Not as bad, but it's still there. Logically you would start at the highest after seeing the gadgets and the patterns. You would start at the richest of the rich. How many multi-billionaires live in Gotham?

XtremelyBaneful 11-30-2013 06:02 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shauner111 (Post 27310747)
He was still in the public as "billionaire Bruce" for 5 years, working on the clean energy project until he felt he needed to shut it down. He was a recluse for 3 years.

How do you know that? the way i have interpreted it in the movie, the energy project was always something off camera in the background throughout the whole series. It certainly could have continued developing during Wayne's sulking period.

Shikamaru 11-30-2013 06:04 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shauner111 (Post 27310831)
It's pretty much the same. Not as bad, but it's still there. Logically you would start at the highest after seeing the gadgets and the patterns. You would start at the richest of the rich. How many multi-billionaires live in Gotham?

1) There's quite a few billionaires living in Gotham. Every major metropolitan city has their fair share of billionaires.

2) Yes, you would start investigating the richest people. But then you would find no solid evidence on Bruce Wayne and you would move on to the next guy.

XtremelyBaneful 11-30-2013 06:06 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310755)
Let's be honest, it's a little silly that nobody would think Bruce was Batman to begin with. The guy had a leaping tank for a car, who in Gotham has enough money for that?

But that's just part of the suspension of disbelief that people expect for a Batman movie.

well, that is where the story arc of the Riddler comes in fulfillment, doesn't it? And to anything you said, others have already answered.

The Joker 11-30-2013 06:15 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Did Gotham City not recognize Bane's tumblers as the same vehicle Batman used to drive years ago?

Infinity9999x 11-30-2013 06:21 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shauner111 (Post 27310819)
But that's not needed. You dont need to say that. He's had many years since to confirm his suspicion, to see Bruce's patterns and Batman's patterns. Like anyone should do but apparently they dont....because we suspend disbelief.

Yeah, I still would have liked something more, because it did make me pause in the theater and go "really?"

Unlike some however, that's all it did. Wheras some people seem to act like after that moment they sat in the theater for the next two hours stewing over that moment. Like I said, it didn't ruin it for me, but I thought it was a bit weak.

But in terms of this original question, yeah, I think that's looking a bit too much into the whole Batman motif itself. The fact that people didn't realize Bruce was Batman to begin with is a stretch. But a certain level of disbelief is required for comic stories.

AnneFan 11-30-2013 07:53 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Joker (Post 27310917)
Did Gotham City not recognize Bane's tumblers as the same vehicle Batman used to drive years ago?

I would've liked that explored. Batman's missing and the public think he's supporting terrorist activities with his stash of vehicles.

XtremelyBaneful 11-30-2013 08:51 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinity9999x (Post 27310957)


But in terms of this original question, yeah, I think that's looking a bit too much into the whole Batman motif itself. The fact that people didn't realize Bruce was Batman to begin with is a stretch. But a certain level of disbelief is required for comic stories.

I disagree. First of all, like I said before, is this not the premise of the riddler's agenda?

Second of all, the first film made it more believable, with Bruce returning, and first being the playboy and then later dismissing Batman as something to be respected. The third film made it silly with both him and the Batman figure being in the shadows for 8 years.

Victarion 11-30-2013 10:59 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
I imagine there were people going off what they observed-the disappearance of Batman and Bruce Wayne-and spouting what would amount to "conspiracy theories" without any hard evidence. Take into account that Batman was gone but Bruce hung around for a while before he went into seclusion (he didn't drop out of the public eye until after he found out about the possibility of the clean energy project being weaponized). Going back to my point about the people who were putting out conspiracy theories about Bruce being Batman, the Dent Act was also implemented at this time. History shows that when something so momentous is passed, every news agency is going to focus in on it. So those claims were likely drowned out in the media frenzy surrounding the Dent Act.

Edit: How many people in Gotham would've connected the Tumbler to Wayne Enterprises? I thought Earle had shuffled most of that stuff out of the public eye when he stuck Fox in a dead end position at the company.

Your idea for the Riddler is quite close to some fanfictions that were posted here before we got confirmation of Bane and Catwoman. The problem is that it retreads the Mr Reese subplot which addressed the idea of someone putting 2 and 2 together to deduce Batman is Bruce Wayne. If Nolan had felt it were important, Reese could've been brought back, interrogated by Bane, and killed.

That would've been a great addition to Blake's dialogue, Infinity.

During the scenes of Bane's Gotham, they could've had some propaganda posters or grafiti about Batman being in league with Bane. Or maybe speculation from one or two of the officers working with Gordon and Blake (it would make more sense, I think, if it were one of Jones's men). Likewise, a poster in the slummy area where Selina lived, or the bar where she met Stryver, saying "HARVEY DENT IS WATCHING YOU" would've been a nice touch.

XtremelyBaneful 11-30-2013 11:24 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Victarion (Post 27313111)
I imagine there were people going off what they observed-the disappearance of Batman and Bruce Wayne-and spouting what would amount to "conspiracy theories" without any hard evidence. Take into account that Batman was gone but Bruce hung around for a while before he went into seclusion (he didn't drop out of the public eye until after he found out about the possibility of the clean energy project being weaponized). Going back to my point about the people who were putting out conspiracy theories about Bruce being Batman, the Dent Act was also implemented at this time. History shows that when something so momentous is passed, every news agency is going to focus in on it. So those claims were likely drowned out in the media frenzy surrounding the Dent Act.

Edit: How many people in Gotham would've connected the Tumbler to Wayne Enterprises? I thought Earle had shuffled most of that stuff out of the public eye when he stuck Fox in a dead end position at the company.

Your idea for the Riddler is quite close to some fanfictions that were posted here before we got confirmation of Bane and Catwoman. The problem is that it retreads the Mr Reese subplot which addressed the idea of someone putting 2 and 2 together to deduce Batman is Bruce Wayne. If Nolan had felt it were important, Reese could've been brought back, interrogated by Bane, and killed.

That would've been a great addition to Blake's dialogue, Infinity.

During the scenes of Bane's Gotham, they could've had some propaganda posters or grafiti about Batman being in league with Bane. Or maybe speculation from one or two of the officers working with Gordon and Blake (it would make more sense, I think, if it were one of Jones's men). Likewise, a poster in the slummy area where Selina lived, or the bar where she met Stryver, saying "HARVEY DENT IS WATCHING YOU" would've been a nice touch.

Where is everyone getting the fact that Bruce was out in public during the clean air project? For all I know he did that behind closed doors and had Fox handle it all.

The case with Reese was different, because he figured things out while being inside Wayne Enterprises. The Riddler would have had his deducing done through investigation on the outside.

shauner111 11-30-2013 11:36 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Riddler could never come right after Joker or Coleman Reese. Too much of the same ****. Sure there would be some differences but still too many similarities.

Victarion 11-30-2013 11:47 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful (Post 27313273)
Where is everyone getting the fact that Bruce was out in public during the clean air project? For all I know he did that behind closed doors and had Fox handle it all.

The case with Reese was different, because he figured things out while being inside Wayne Enterprises. The Riddler would have had his deducing done through investigation on the outside.

Miranda Tate's dialogue when Bruce showed her the reactor.

Brother Jack 11-30-2013 11:48 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
I think there's enough wiggle room there to say that the last time Bruce suited up as Batman before Bane was not the night of Dent's death. The process of the Dent Act being implemented and Blackgate being built would not have happened overnight and I could easily see Bruce going out there in a highly clandestine fashion in that interim. Blake's line about "Harvey Dent Day" being the last confirmed appearance of Batman eight years prior can support this. I also just really love the idea of Bruce watching Batman become obsolete with the heightening of the police's crackdown on crime while at the same time focusing more and more on philanthropy as 'Bruce Wayne'. It's a reinvention of both of his duel personas and the temporary failure of them.

Victarion 11-30-2013 11:50 PM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Yes. I read the clean energy project as Bruce's attempt to move on after Batman became obsolete. It let Bruce channel his energies into helping the city, rather than wasting his time in the cape and cowl and lingering on what's past.

Lantern Venom 12-01-2013 01:04 AM

Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru (Post 27310847)
1) There's quite a few billionaires living in Gotham. Every major metropolitan city has their fair share of billionaires.

2) Yes, you would start investigating the richest people. But then you would find no solid evidence on Bruce Wayne and you would move on to the next guy.

For the sake of argument, I ask people to imagine that such a vigilante started showing up on the news. Then I ask who they would assume was under the mask? People would think: ex-soldier, ex-cop, former bounty hunter, ex-private investigator, ex-bouncer, etc. It wouldn't be the money that people would suspect, it would be the personality. Even if a billionaire was in shape, the Donald Trump/Steve Jobs types just wouldn't register.


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