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-   -   wat if they built up to x men, like avengers? (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=471715)

XtremelyBaneful 01-11-2014 09:15 PM

wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
okay, so avengers is the most successful, highest grossing comic book movie, ever. and the hype built up more and more by releasing films each in the same universe as each other.

which culminated to 5 to 6 superheroes, coming together. that's essentially wat x men is as well, dozens of superheroes appearing onscreen together. my question/theory is this:

obviously fox focuses on wolverine as the main character in all of its cinematic lore. so, wat if they started off with him, as an origin story, and then a magneto and xavier origin story similar to first class, and so on, and so forth, until we get to something like X Men - a film where all of them are finally culminated on screen to fight alongside together, finally - instead of starting off that way, the same way I heard they were gonna do the justice league movie (that might have would have been doomed to fail).

do you think the x men films would have been more well received/higher grossed/more popular?

psylockolussus 01-11-2014 11:32 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
I don't think it would work that well for the X-Men, even if they get huge actors to play the lead roles.

For the 1st X-Men movie, people would expect the most well known faces of the X-Men, not 4 to 6 lead-in films featuring the origin story of Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean, Storm, Prof X and Magneto.

The prequel films for Wolverine and Prof X/Magneto didn't do so bad at the box-office because they were already introduced/developed in the earlier X-Men films and the general audience are already familiar with them. But imagine if they released those films first before a X-Men film featuring all the familiar faces, they would probably earned less money at the box-office.

Angamb 01-12-2014 08:51 AM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
I think it could have worked. not as huge as Marvel, of course, mainly because it would have been on years 2000-2001-2002 or so, and the boxoffice around that time wasnt as big.

But I think the better approach would be to do solo movies to the actual X-Men, and not Xavier and Magneto. This way, all the lead X-Men would have had a great development before the first team movie, and they would have been a bit more popular to general audience before the team movie too, so this way the team movies would have put most of the focus on only Wolverine, but would have been even more ensemble.

But anyway, as many fans have said, X-Men work better as a team, and at the end of the day, all started as a team, since the 60's comics where basically Xavier having a team already, with the backstory of each x-man beeing adressed from time to time, instead of a solo comic first.

XtremelyBaneful 01-12-2014 12:45 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 27630549)
I don't think it would work that well for the X-Men, even if they get huge actors to play the lead roles.

For the 1st X-Men movie, people would expect the most well known faces of the X-Men, not 4 to 6 lead-in films featuring the origin story of Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean, Storm, Prof X and Magneto.

The prequel films for Wolverine and Prof X/Magneto didn't do so bad at the box-office because they were already introduced/developed in the earlier X-Men films and the general audience are already familiar with them. But imagine if they released those films first before a X-Men film featuring all the familiar faces, they would probably earned less money at the box-office.

you mean the first movie in this hypothetical scenario? they wouldn't have titled it x men, they'd have titled it wolverine. they wouldn't have that as a title until make 4 or 5 films in. and the prequel films that already exist didn't do much better than the original trilogy. as it stands, i think the wolverine and the last stand are the highest grossing of the films, and none of themhave grossed over $500million.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angamb (Post 27632245)
I think it could have worked. not as huge as Marvel, of course, mainly because it would have been on years 2000-2001-2002 or so, and the boxoffice around that time wasnt as big.

But I think the better approach would be to do solo movies to the actual X-Men, and not Xavier and Magneto. This way, all the lead X-Men would have had a great development before the first team movie, and they would have been a bit more popular to general audience before the team movie too, so this way the team movies would have put most of the focus on only Wolverine, but would have been even more ensemble.

But anyway, as many fans have said, X-Men work better as a team, and at the end of the day, all started as a team, since the 60's comics where basically Xavier having a team already, with the backstory of each x-man beeing adressed from time to time, instead of a solo comic first.

box office wasn't big in 2000-2002? harry potter, spiderman, lord of the rings?

i agree with pretty much everything else though, it's all about buildup and like you said, they all started as a team (except for maybe the key ones like wolverine) so they could have had xavier playing a nick fury type role and wat x men become as shield

Angamb 01-12-2014 01:58 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
I wrote something wrong, I wanted to say "the team movies wouldnt have put most of the focus on Wolverine"

The thing I wonder is, if Fox would have started this way, would it have been better to start with even younger versions?

I mean, would we have seen how each X-Men discovered their powers? or the solo movies should have the actual X-Man around 30, just like X1?

this way, the actors would be much older by the first team movie, I think.

XtremelyBaneful 01-12-2014 03:45 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angamb (Post 27633953)
I wrote something wrong, I wanted to say "the team movies wouldnt have put most of the focus on Wolverine"

The thing I wonder is, if Fox would have started this way, would it have been better to start with even younger versions?

I mean, would we have seen how each X-Men discovered their powers? or the solo movies should have the actual X-Man around 30, just like X1?

this way, the actors would be much older by the first team movie, I think.

i disagree, i think the team movies would have put most of the focus on wolverine the same way avengers put most of the focus on iron man.

and yeah, maybe it would have been good to start with younger version but if it is very very young, then the older versions should also appear in the film and take over as the franchise continues

psylockolussus 01-12-2014 11:57 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Imagine if they released a film titled Wolverine in 2000, then Cyclops in 2001, then Jean Grey in 2002 and finally Storm in 2003 then the all-ensemble X-Men film in 2004. The first all-ensemble X-Men might be perform huge with the 4-films that led to it...

But the thing about the solo-films for those characters I've mentioned, is they could appear as lower-scaled films to the general adience and there wouldn't be much excitement to them unlike X1/X2 back in 2000/2003 because the solo films aren't featuring characters such as Colossus, Iceman, Rogue, Shadowcat, Magneto, Professor X, Mystique. And Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Wolverine aren't together in every film. Maybe some of those characters will appear in cameo roles/featuring roles but just a few of them. They are origin stories and we would be seeing obscure comic-book characters for the films of Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Wolverine, unless they make characters like Mystique as an archenemy of Jean or Storm, or try to incorporate characters like Mystique, Rogue in their origin story.

It worked for the Avengers but if you look at it, they kinda copied the same model in the comics. Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America started as their own thing and a few years/decades, they became a part of an all-star superhero team which is The Avengers. With the X-Men, most of the characters appeared in the X-Men titles first and not their own comic-book issue.

XtremelyBaneful 01-13-2014 01:35 AM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 27640087)
Imagine if they released a film titled Wolverine in 2000, then Cyclops in 2001, then Jean Grey in 2002 and finally Storm in 2003 then the all-ensemble X-Men film in 2004. The first all-ensemble X-Men might be perform huge with the 4-films that led to it...

But the thing about the solo-films for those characters I've mentioned, is they could appear as lower-scaled films to the general adience and there wouldn't be much excitement to them unlike X1/X2 back in 2000/2003 because the solo films aren't featuring characters such as Colossus, Iceman, Rogue, Shadowcat, Magneto, Professor X, Mystique. And Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Wolverine aren't together in every film. Maybe some of those characters will appear in cameo roles/featuring roles but just a few of them. They are origin stories and we would be seeing obscure comic-book characters for the films of Cyclops, Jean, Storm and Wolverine, unless they make characters like Mystique as an archenemy of Jean or Storm, or try to incorporate characters like Mystique, Rogue in their origin story.

It worked for the Avengers but if you look at it, they kinda copied the same model in the comics. Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America started as their own thing and a few years/decades, they became a part of an all-star superhero team which is The Avengers. With the X-Men, most of the characters appeared in the X-Men titles first and not their own comic-book issue.

not necessarily; you could include certain characters in each of those films as black widow was in im2 and even have subplots like in girl with the dragon tattoo or inglorial basterds until the two protagonists meet

psylockolussus 01-13-2014 01:50 AM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
I already mentioned that when I said "unless they make characters like Mystique as an archenemy of Jean or Storm, or try to incorporate characters like Mystique, Rogue in their origin story."

And look what happened when Fox tried to incorporate Gambit into the origin story of Wolverine. It felt like Gambit was a shoe-in to bring more interest to the film and not really because he's really necessary to Wolverine's origin story.

XtremelyBaneful 01-15-2014 12:00 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 27640663)
I already mentioned that when I said "unless they make characters like Mystique as an archenemy of Jean or Storm, or try to incorporate characters like Mystique, Rogue in their origin story."

And look what happened when Fox tried to incorporate Gambit into the origin story of Wolverine. It felt like Gambit was a shoe-in to bring more interest to the film and not really because he's really necessary to Wolverine's origin story.

i must have missed that. where did you put it?

but the first wolverine movie was the movie that never happened. ah, but i do believe gambit was one of the best parts of it and deadpool one of the worst.

Lord 01-15-2014 12:07 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
X-Men don't work like the Avengers, i really don't like this idea.

marvelrobbins 01-15-2014 12:19 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
I dislike this idea.Avengers was In comics not counting ultimates various heroes coming together.That approach works fine for avengers films.That's not X-Men.

CyclopsWasRight 01-15-2014 01:44 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
X-Men isn't a team-up, they're a team.

I don't see it being necessary nor working out to build them up with solo movies.

Doing an X-Men movie, then X-Force movie, then X-Factor movie then Starjammers movie and then putting them together in a big epic scale team team-up could work though

XtremelyBaneful 01-22-2014 05:45 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 27662007)
X-Men don't work like the Avengers, i really don't like this idea.

I do.
Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins (Post 27662077)
I dislike this idea.Avengers was In comics not counting ultimates various heroes coming together.That approach works fine for avengers films.That's not X-Men.

well they weren't all BORN together as a team, were they?
Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclopsWasRight (Post 27662659)
X-Men isn't a team-up, they're a team.

I don't see it being necessary nor working out to build them up with solo movies.

Doing an X-Men movie, then X-Force movie, then X-Factor movie then Starjammers movie and then putting them together in a big epic scale team team-up could work though

wolverine wasn't originally a part of x men, as the first film pointed out. so this could have worked and it would have been epic.

XtremelyBaneful 01-27-2014 08:28 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
also, it is not as if all of the x men were born into the damn team; they ALL had origin stories. I don't know why you guys think it wouldn't have worked.

psylockolussus 01-27-2014 09:53 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Because if there's a 1st X-Men movie, people would be looking for a couple of characters. Not an origin story just for 1 X-Men character. Whether its the cartoons, videogames or a film series, they would always start it with the X-Men already assembled. Then the flashbacks/origin stories come in later.

X-Men already assembled = more appealing to the mainstream viewers
Origin story for 1 single character = not so much especially if its not Wolverine

XtremelyBaneful 01-29-2014 10:34 AM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 27775331)
Because if there's a 1st X-Men movie, people would be looking for a couple of characters. Not an origin story just for 1 X-Men character. Whether its the cartoons, videogames or a film series, they would always start it with the X-Men already assembled. Then the flashbacks/origin stories come in later.

X-Men already assembled = more appealing to the mainstream viewers
Origin story for 1 single character = not so much especially if its not Wolverine

well that's obviously why they did wat they did. this thread was made to create the wat if, of if they did wat I suggested in the op.

it's the equivalent of disney deciding to do avengers in 2008 instead of starting with iron man.

psylockolussus 01-30-2014 12:30 AM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
That "what if" you are proposing wouldn't work.

Because unlike Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America and Thor, they could always be introduced as their own thing first and during those years, Avengers wasn't exactly popular yet.

With the X-Men, they are already known as a group of mutants with special abilities in the 90s. So when a studio/company releases a X-Men movie or a series, people would be expecting to see a couple of mutants, not an origin story for just 1 mutant that might become a X-Man in the future.

XtremelyBaneful 02-02-2014 12:48 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
but dude. in your 2nd post in this thread you talked about how it would have been great if they did do that. I don't understand.

psylockolussus 02-02-2014 10:04 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful (Post 27830259)
but dude. in your 2nd post in this thread you talked about how it would have been great if they did do that. I don't understand.

Well dude, just because idea/concept is good, it doesn't mean it would automatically sell.

Ideally, there should have been a comic-book movie for a lot of Marvel characters (not just the top-tier characters/groups) but that is not happening right now.

XtremelyBaneful 05-06-2014 02:34 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 27837193)
Well dude, just because idea/concept is good, it doesn't mean it would automatically sell.

Ideally, there should have been a comic-book movie for a lot of Marvel characters (not just the top-tier characters/groups) but that is not happening right now.

Well the Avengers worked and it was the exact same concept, what makes you this wouldn't have been just as good?

Lord 05-06-2014 04:36 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
X-Men isn't a team-up, they're a team.

psylockolussus 05-07-2014 01:21 AM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful (Post 28696773)
Well the Avengers worked and it was the exact same concept, what makes you this wouldn't have been just as good?

It worked for Avengers, because it was something new to the viewers and releasing superhero movies in 2008 to 2012 weren't so risky anymore.

Do you think really think if Fox released a Wolverine/Jean/Cyclops/Storm solo movie in 2000s, those films would have been so successful and it would have led to X-Men team-up? Comic-book movies weren't even that accessible in the early 2000s. We only had Superman/Batman movies during the 80s/90s. The others weren't so successful. Blade had its success in 1998 but like as if people viewed that a comic-book film.

X-Men aren't exactly similar to the Avengers and the Justice League. Even in the comics, they aren't.

XtremelyBaneful 05-08-2014 07:11 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord (Post 28698305)
X-Men isn't a team-up, they're a team.

But they weren't BORN into the team. They all had origin stories.
Quote:

Originally Posted by psylockolussus (Post 28702679)
It worked for Avengers, because it was something new to the viewers and releasing superhero movies in 2008 to 2012 weren't so risky anymore.

Do you think really think if Fox released a Wolverine/Jean/Cyclops/Storm solo movie in 2000s, those films would have been so successful and it would have led to X-Men team-up? Comic-book movies weren't even that accessible in the early 2000s. We only had Superman/Batman movies during the 80s/90s. The others weren't so successful. Blade had its success in 1998 but like as if people viewed that a comic-book film.

X-Men aren't exactly similar to the Avengers and the Justice League. Even in the comics, they aren't.

Dude, you yourself suggested in an earlier post that the X Men film with origin stories that came before could have been a big deal... so yes, I do think those films would have been successful for building up a shared universe.

Sexy Magician 05-08-2014 07:25 PM

Re: wat if they built up to x men, like avengers?
 
I don't think solo movies would be right,

Personally I would love a reboot with X1 focusing on the original 5 X-men from the comics against the brotherhood, ending with the X-men trapped on an island just like in the comics. (Could make the island the Savage Land)

X2 you bring in the second genesis team to rescue the first, the first team quits except for Cyclops and a new X-Men team is born, maybe have sinister and the Marauders as antagonists.

Then in the 3rd and most likely final film it would be both X-men teams, the brotherhood and a few new faces facing off against Apocalypse.

It could feature and tease Apocalypse right from the first movie all leading up to the 3rd movie, that would be a build up I would like to see.


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