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BLobo 02-18-2014 08:17 AM

Too much action?
 
I remember that this was one of the biggest complaints from critics. When i watched the movie in the theaters, the amount of action didnīt really bother me.

Last night i rewatched the movie with my girlfriend, who was watching it for the first time. She loved it, but also said something like: "That last fight with Zod was a little to much. It was getting boring". This is interesting because she never complains about anything in movies. Lol.

Like the first time, i enjoyed the movie, but this time i gotta confess that i also thought the last battle was a little boring, especially when the city was being destroyed. The fight with Zod was also too long.

Anyone else thinks that this movie would be much better with a little less action? The movie is way longer than what it needed to be and the action is just too loud and badly paced.

Personally, iīd cut that last battle in half. The Krypton scenes could also have been a little less long. maybe 10 minutes instead of 20 or so.

I donīt think this movie needs more than 120 minutes.

FeedOnATreeFrog 02-18-2014 08:51 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
The problem imo is not necessarily the amount of action so much as the execution of the last couple action scenes (tonally and visually repetitive, lack of tension, etc).

One solution would be to make better action scenes. Another solution would be to have less action.

blumatic 02-18-2014 09:38 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
The action was fine. There were a lot of breaks in between.

It was one of the most unique action sequences I've seen in an action film.

The angles were spectacular. You can understand that these guys were very powerful.

I think those that find the action sequences dull or repetitive really couldnt follow the speed of the action.

I've watch lots of Dragon Ball Z, Bruce Lee, IP Man (Bruce Lee's Master) And there come some repetition when fighting. Its punching and kicking.

But MOS action was the best Ive ever seen.

Smallville ranks top. The speed of Faora and her martial arts background. The brute force of Namek. Superman trying to escape only to be intercepted like a football by Namek.

When I saw the 3rd Matrix I couldnt wait to see a Superman movie do that. MOS blew it away.

As far as Zod goes. It was really good. Not as good as Smallville. But it was great. Flying through the air and throwing punches automatically makes it great.

Lord 02-18-2014 09:44 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
It would be better if the plot and characters behind the action were better handled

Senator Pleasury 02-18-2014 09:51 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
I cannot imagine that too much action could be a problem. To me, the problem is that you have 60 minutes of it (the last hour of the movie) and the fights in Smallville look and feel the same as the ones in Metropolis, against the terraform and the final Superman-Zod battle. I feel no difference between them, the urgency and intensity doesn't change an thus there's no dramatic progression.

Human Torch 02-18-2014 04:55 PM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 27970715)
I cannot imagine that too much action could be a problem. To me, the problem is that you have 60 minutes of it (the last hour of the movie) and the fights in Smallville look and feel the same as the ones in Metropolis, against the terraform and the final Superman-Zod battle. I feel no difference between them, the urgency and intensity doesn't change an thus there's no dramatic progression.

My sentiments exactly.:up:

Batmannerism 02-19-2014 02:45 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
I had heard that the final 20 minutes were just destruction, before I saw MOS.

But when you watch the Supes vs Zod fight, it's barely more than 5 minutes.

I know that some people complained that the last half hour had so much destruction and noise that it wasn't enjoyable.
For myself, I thought it was great, Nolan and Snyder set out to show us what it would look like if Superman got into a scrap in downtown, and that's exactly what they did.
I have no idea why people complained.

Personally, I thought the Battle of Smallville set a new high in terms of Superhero vs Supervillain fights, and was the best action piece of the film. Now that was just magic, in terms of its brutality and pace.

Supes vs Zod was good, and I liked the speed at which it took place, in fact it goes so fast that there are lots of little things I missed on the first viewing. As far as fights go it feels a bit shapeless, well compared to Smallville anyway (maybe cut it by a minute and have a bit more choreography of them going toe to toe, although I loved the exchange of blows in orbit, nice, very nice - and I guess flight was an important part of that fight, as they wanted to show Supes fighting someone on even terms.

So, all in all, I had no problems with the action.

BTW I liked that Krypton didn't just blow up, the Kryptonians were responsible for their own demise, and I really liked the brief Kryptonian Civil war - love that shot where Jor El runs out of the council chambers and just stops and looks, his jaw drops as he sees that all out war has erupted. I call that the "**** gets real on Krypton" shot.
As an opening action sequence it set the pace and tone for the film. Nice Snyder, very nice !



:super:

BLobo 02-19-2014 03:15 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

But when you watch the Supes vs Zod fight, it's barely more than 5 minutes.
But when you think about it, given the fact we had already seen so much destruction, making it 2.5 minutes would probably have been more than enough. It feels long and repetitive. Maybe if the movie had a little less action it would have received better reviews, i think, because thereīs really great stuff in there, but the action gets in the middle of the great stuff

You lose a little bit the impact when you show too much of something. Itīs like horror. This is one of the big differences between Nolan and Snyder. Nolan has a better sense of timing and action scenes are never too exhausting. You have a cool action scene, not very long, then you have story. Then you have another action scene, and none of them are based on things blowing up for 20 minutes.

The Smallville fight was great. but the rest was very similar to any catastrophic movie: Things simply blowing up. A lot of noise, a lot of explosions. Thatīs something that i have already watched many times, so it doesnīt impress any more.

Superman vs Zod showed us what we had already seen in the Smallville battle. Nothing particularly new, thatīs why i say it should have been a little shorter.

I guess this is the trend with SH movies nowadays. We gotta have over 30 minutes of catastrophic action and everything blowing up in the last act. It gets kind of predictable and repetitve. I wish some director had the guts to try something new. Nolan did, but i donīt see anyone else doing it, which is a shame. I studios are to blame for thinking we need to watch the same stuff over and over and over again.

Human Torch 02-19-2014 04:47 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
The Smallville fight was so blah,the first time I saw it,I thought I missed something.Nothing "important" was accomplished.They batted each other around,then the bad guys left.

I thought the Zod fight was pretty good.It could've been a bit longer with some of the other action/fights cut down instead.

manofsteel4life 02-19-2014 07:16 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
I do agree that maybe the action should've been trimmed down a tad, but IMO the smallville fight wasn't the same as the final showdown between Zod an Supes.....totally different styles of fighting....:huh:

Senator Pleasury 02-19-2014 11:03 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
By the time Superman and Zod fight, we've seen everything: the same punching, the same super-speed, etc, done the same way as before. Only thing new was Zod about to kill that family and Superman having to stop him, and that's the only reason why it becomes interesting.

manofsteel4life 02-19-2014 08:43 PM

Re: Too much action?
 
So you wanted it choreographed better....is that what you mean?

sportjames23 02-20-2014 12:26 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmannerism (Post 27981129)
I had heard that the final 20 minutes were just destruction, before I saw MOS.

But when you watch the Supes vs Zod fight, it's barely more than 5 minutes.

I know that some people complained that the last half hour had so much destruction and noise that it wasn't enjoyable.
For myself, I thought it was great, Nolan and Snyder set out to show us what it would look like if Superman got into a scrap in downtown, and that's exactly what they did.
I have no idea why people complained.

Personally, I thought the Battle of Smallville set a new high in terms of Superhero vs Supervillain fights, and was the best action piece of the film. Now that was just magic, in terms of its brutality and pace.

Supes vs Zod was good, and I liked the speed at which it took place, in fact it goes so fast that there are lots of little things I missed on the first viewing. As far as fights go it feels a bit shapeless, well compared to Smallville anyway (maybe cut it by a minute and have a bit more choreography of them going toe to toe, although I loved the exchange of blows in orbit, nice, very nice - and I guess flight was an important part of that fight, as they wanted to show Supes fighting someone on even terms.

So, all in all, I had no problems with the action.

BTW I liked that Krypton didn't just blow up, the Kryptonians were responsible for their own demise, and I really liked the brief Kryptonian Civil war - love that shot where Jor El runs out of the council chambers and just stops and looks, his jaw drops as he sees that all out war has erupted. I call that the "**** gets real on Krypton" shot.
As an opening action sequence it set the pace and tone for the film. Nice Snyder, very nice !



:super:


Hear, hear!

Batmannerism 02-20-2014 01:51 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sportjames23 (Post 27989867)
Hear, hear!


Thanks dude !


Now back to those people who feel like MOS was too action-heavy,
go watch Superman Returns, which doesn't have any problems
with too much action, in fact other than Superman getting his ass
kicked, there isn't any action.

It's basically the Jane Austen version of Superman, (and I hate Jane Austen's books), if Jane Austen wrote it while deeply depressed and suffering from a gun-shot wound to the head - in fact, Jane Austen would have written a better Superman story under those conditions.

Yes, Superman lifts stuff (like planes and small continents) but somehow even that doesn't come off as particularly exciting IMO - and yes, Superman the Movie is mostly lifting and saving, but it was Superman on the big screen for the first time, and it featured the amazing performance of Christopher Reeve, so it still worked. And besides, there was plenty of fisticuffs in Superman II.

Anyway, while people say MOS is action heavy, it balanced all that out with plenty of character, story and good performances. Superman Returns
managed to not have any of that stuff (as well as an action deficit).

In the comics Superman does a lot of saving and lifting, but he also does
a lot of fighting, in fact these days arguably more fighting than anything else. MOS reflects that, which is why it works IMO.

Senator Pleasury 02-20-2014 02:18 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmannerism (Post 27990525)
Thanks dude !


Now back to those people who feel like MOS was too action-heavy,
go watch Superman Returns, which doesn't have any problems
with too much action, in fact other than Superman getting his ass
kicked, there isn't any action.

It's basically the Jane Austen version of Superman, (and I hate Jane Austen's books), if Jane Austen wrote it while deeply depressed and suffering from a gun-shot wound to the head - in fact, Jane Austen would have written a better Superman story under those conditions.

Yes, Superman lifts stuff (like planes and small continents) but somehow even that doesn't come off as particularly exciting IMO - and yes, Superman the Movie is mostly lifting and saving, but it was Superman on the big screen for the first time, and it featured the amazing performance of Christopher Reeve, so it still worked. And besides, there was plenty of fisticuffs in Superman II.

Anyway, while people say MOS is action heavy, it balanced all that out with plenty of character, story and good performances. Superman Returns
managed to not have any of that stuff (as well as an action deficit).

In the comics Superman does a lot of saving and lifting, but he also does
a lot of fighting, in fact these days arguably more fighting than anything else. MOS reflects that, which is why it works IMO.

Yes, some SR bashing certainly gets your point across and makes MOS better. Because if you think the water is too cold, then go to the desert, get dehydrated and learn your lesson. Good job.

BLobo 02-20-2014 05:47 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Now back to those people who feel like MOS was too action-heavy,
go watch Superman Returns, which doesn't have any problems
I would have prefered something in the middle. Superman Returns lacked a good fighting scene. But MOS lacked the ability to stop when it should have.

You see, there is a HUGE number of people that thinks a movie gets boring when it has too many explosions, buildings falling down and fight scenes that seem to never end. And this kind of gives you an answer to why this movie didnīt have great ratings. The story was decent enough, the acting was great, the score was amazing, some action scenes were very well done, but there was something in the movie that felt a little bit too much, hence the not so good reviews.

This is probably not the right place to discuss this subject, since itīs full of people who donīt mind movies loaded with action. But the GA kind of gets a little bit annoyed by it.

Green Goblin 02-20-2014 05:55 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
If they cut just 20 mins of it and had more funny or light moments in the film then that would make a better film.

Fizicks 02-20-2014 06:55 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Senator Pleasury was pretty much spot on. The Smallville fight and Metropolis fight were too similar, especially the fact that there wasn't much dramatic progression. Moreover, the Smallville fight might've even been better choreographed, making the final fight seem slightly lackluster in comparison.

The final fight wasn't too long by any means- it was only 5 minutes and 20 seconds (as someone earlier also pointed out). I felt if they upped the ante in the Metropolis fight, it would've "felt" less drawn out as some felt it was, despite it only being a little over 5 minutes.

bluearth 02-20-2014 11:07 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 27983001)
By the time Superman and Zod fight, we've seen everything: the same punching, the same super-speed, etc, done the same way as before. Only thing new was Zod about to kill that family and Superman having to stop him, and that's the only reason why it becomes interesting.

Theres no flying in the smallville battle, but there is in the Zod battle

These battles are also the first time we got a true Superman live action fight. If that means nothing to you then I can only shake my head

Fudgie 02-20-2014 11:36 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
No I loved all the action. About time Superman got to have some proper fight scenes with someone who could give him a fight.

blumatic 02-20-2014 11:45 AM

Re: Too much action?
 
Anyone who says the fighting was repetitive clearly has no eye for the nuisances for fighting. And is not a fan of anything sports.

It's all generally repetitive.

The fights in Batman, Avengers, Ironman etc is all repetitive within each film.

Senator Pleasury 02-20-2014 12:41 PM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BLobo (Post 27991229)
I would have prefered something in the middle. Superman Returns lacked a good fighting scene. But MOS lacked the ability to stop when it should have.

No, in SHH we don't know about middle ground. Jokes aside, it wasn't as much as stopping the action but give it different tones, so we can get more and more excited, worried, whatever. But it's really hard to keep that growing for 60 minutes.

As for the rest of your post, I agree.


*******************************

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizicks (Post 27991453)
Senator Pleasury was pretty much spot on. The Smallville fight and Metropolis fight were too similar, especially the fact that there wasn't much dramatic progression. Moreover, the Smallville fight might've even been better choreographed, making the final fight seem slightly lackluster in comparison.

The final fight wasn't too long by any means- it was only 5 minutes and 20 seconds (as someone earlier also pointed out). I felt if they upped the ante in the Metropolis fight, it would've "felt" less drawn out as some felt it was, despite it only being a little over 5 minutes.

:up:


*******************************

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluearth (Post 27993123)
Theres no flying in the smallville battle, but there is in the Zod battle

Yes, there is :Superman takes Gral. Zod away from his mother flying, Superman flies to avoid the helicopter's shots, the tall Kryptonian attacks a plane flying, Faora does too but Superman flies to stop her, Faora goes to the bank flying and Superman takes her out flying as well, and the subsequent battle has some flying too, then Superman flies to save a soldier that's falling, Faora flies to fight the soldiers and Superman and the tall Kryptonian also fly while fighting, Superman saves Col. Hardy flying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluearth (Post 27993123)
These battles are also the first time we got a true Superman live action fight. If that means nothing to you then I can only shake my head

Thanks gods for the first true Superman live action fight. You overdid it a little bit and by the end it was more loud than dramatic but thanks.


*******************************

Quote:

Originally Posted by blumatic (Post 27993473)
Anyone who says the fighting was repetitive clearly has no eye for the nuisances for fighting. And is not a fan of anything sports.

It's all generally repetitive.

The fights in Batman, Avengers, Ironman etc is all repetitive within each film.

The fight between Thor and Iron Man or the Helicarrier boarding attack had a different tone and scope than the final New York battle. Iron Man against the jets was completely different from Iron man against Iron Monger. And Nolan was just too good breathing drama into the scenes to even think about how different the fights are/are not.

AVEITWITHJAMON 02-20-2014 07:34 PM

Re: Too much action?
 
The only action sequence which felt unnecessary to me was the fight with the World Engine, I understand we have to see Clark taking it out, but that sequence should have been cut down majorly. We only really needed to see that it had defenses that could tak Clark down and then the final moment of him taking it out IMO.

Batmannerism 02-20-2014 08:37 PM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BLobo (Post 27991229)
I would have prefered something in the middle. Superman Returns lacked a good fighting scene. But MOS lacked the ability to stop when it should have.

You see, there is a HUGE number of people that thinks a movie gets boring when it has too many explosions, buildings falling down and fight scenes that seem to never end. And this kind of gives you an answer to why this movie didnīt have great ratings. The story was decent enough, the acting was great, the score was amazing, some action scenes were very well done, but there was something in the movie that felt a little bit too much, hence the not so good reviews.

This is probably not the right place to discuss this subject, since itīs full of people who donīt mind movies loaded with action. But the GA kind of gets a little bit annoyed by it.


That's a pretty fair comment, and that you acknowledge that MOS does have a bunch of qualities makes me take what you say seriously - as you have a balanced view of the film's strengths and weaknesses.

I suppose maybe if MOS had toned down the action a bit, it might have done better, in terms of critical reception. I'm glad it didn't, because I enjoyed it, but if Superman's next film appearance is less apocalyptic I can understand why, as it would be nice to see Superman get similar critical acclaim to some other, better-received, Superhero films.

Of course critical reception isn't everything. If you go strictly by RT ratings, then Toy Story is a better movie than Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and as good as the Godfather. I mean come on, really ?


As for MOS and it's action, it certainly lifts the bar in terms of sheer destruction, it's certainly one up from Avengers or Transformers (in terms of collapsing buildings and things blowing up). I suppose, being a fan, I expect that sort of stuff in a Superman film (because otherwise it isn't really a job for Superman). Personally, I'm not a fan of destruction for destruction's sake, but this is meant to be a somewhat realistic depiction of :

a) terraforming, in the middle of a major city. Interestingly few complain about scenes of nuclear destruction in films, e.g. Terminator 2 Judgment day, where even more people would have perished and property damage is exponentially greater. I think perhaps its that in MOS we get a front row seat as the Kryptonians take Metropolis apart block-by-block with their dub-step gravity beam, that makes people turn off (again, it worked for me).

( very much the, you can't build anew without tearing down the old).

b) fistfights between god-like beings. I think what Snyder and co were going for was to show that for Superman and his kind, our world is pretty much made of tissue paper.

Even I got bored in the two transformers sequels, particularly the last one, which had plenty of pointless destruction IMO. MOS didn't feel excessive for me, yeah I probably wouldn't have wanted much more action, but it was just so great to see Superman do what he always does in the comics, which is fight !

I take your point about maybe MOS went too far, for some - well okay, I can be honest, for quite a few people, but then it got mixed reviews -which implies that half of the critical audience were okay with it.

As for what the GA likes, who really knows? They're a fickle bunch - because if you go by the box office, then Twilight is a massive success and a great film series.

Batmannerism 02-20-2014 08:49 PM

Re: Too much action?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury (Post 27990677)
Yes, some SR bashing certainly gets your point across and makes MOS better. Because if you think the water is too cold, then go to the desert, get dehydrated and learn your lesson. Good job.

Yes, comparisons to Superman Returns do actually get my point across,
as the common criticism of that film is that it's boring, Superman doesn't throw a punch, and is pretty much a *****.

Still, critics seemed to prefer Superman Returns, mind you I haven't talked to one person who saw it and told me it was a good movie or fun to watch. While plenty of even non-Superman fans who saw MOS really enjoyed it.

Again, RT scores and critics aren't the ultimate authority on which films are the best, because, as I said earlier, if they are, then Toy Story is a better film than Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Dark Knight, Avengers, Lord of the Rings, and its as good as the Godfather.


Your analogy is a bit OTT, a better one would have been the Goldilocks porridge metaphor, you know, this one is too hot, this one is too cold....
If you think MOS has too much action, go watch SR and be thoroughly bored, and then go watch some other Superman films till you find one that's just right for you.

:cwink:


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