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-   -   Timeline(s) in Apocalypse (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=479301)

pr0xyt0xin 05-15-2014 10:32 AM

Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
First off, to clarify, is the film confirmed to be set in the 1980s? Has an exact date been mentioned by anyone? Here's some further discussion topics:


- Is the original trilogy timeline gone for good? Or is it something more along the lines of Star Trek 2009 (I havent seen DoFP, excuse my ignorance).
- Will Apocalypse himself be from 3000BC? How did he arrive in the 1980s?
- If, rather than waking up randomly in 1980, Apocalypse is a time traveler would you be opposed to him snatching other characters from various points in time? (Archangel, Emma Frost, Bishop/Blink, other various X-Men)
- One might assume Mags/Xavier would be roundabouts 50 years old during the course of this film. Will they need makeup/prosthetics? Silver hair and shaved head finally?
- As it seems it will be set in the 80s, will anyone have a problem seeing:
Angel/Iceman/Rogue/Kitty/Colossus/Pyro any older than 1-2 years old?
Storm/Cyclops/Jean any older than 10-15 years old?

JP 05-15-2014 10:41 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Are you looking for actual answers or is this a speculative topic? :huh:

The first question would be a spoiler as well, so tread carefully...

Sexy Magician 05-15-2014 10:59 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
I really hope DOFP just wipes out this X-Men franchise and we can start again, the timeline in these movies is already screwed up pretty bad.

A teenage Emma Frost appears in Origins, seeing as a teenage cyclops also appears we can only assume this takes place late 80's/early 90's, yet we have an adult Emma Frost in 1962 in First Class.

Origins strikes again, we see a young Quicksilver as a prisoner, yet we have an older Quicksilver in DOFP set roughly 10 to 15 years earlier.

If Eric and Charles are roughly late 20's/ early 30's in First class in 62, they don't really feel old enough in X1, released in 2000 but set in 'the not to distant future', surely by the upcoming DOFP they would be old as heck/dead/in a retirement home not freedom fighting.

Similarly with Toad, in DOFP he's about 18, so by X1 he should be mid 40's but doesent really look it.

Why don't Wolverine and Sabretooth know each other in X1? You can argue Wolverine was mind wiped but Sabretooth doesen't seem to recognise him at all.

I'm sure there is more, just feels a bit like FOX are clinging to this franchise, with the announcement of Gambit appearing in Apocalyose and then getting his own solo movie, it seems like this franchise is never gonna end, for me, I'd take Apocalypse, then REBOOT!!

pr0xyt0xin 05-15-2014 11:20 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JP (Post 28785131)
Are you looking for actual answers or is this a speculative topic? :huh:

The first question would be a spoiler as well, so tread carefully...

Mostly speculative. I can't imagine most of them could be answered at this point. Thanks for the heads up on the spoiler territory.

I've just gotten to thinking that the timeline in this series more than most deserves some discussion.

JP 05-15-2014 11:21 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
I'll get back to you on what I think about most of these things after the 23rd. ;) :up:

pr0xyt0xin 05-15-2014 11:33 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexy Magician (Post 28785277)
I really hope DOFP just wipes out this X-Men franchise and we can start again, the timeline in these movies is already screwed up pretty bad.

A teenage Emma Frost appears in Origins, seeing as a teenage cyclops also appears we can only assume this takes place late 80's/early 90's, yet we have an adult Emma Frost in 1962 in First Class.

Origins strikes again, we see a young Quicksilver as a prisoner, yet we have an older Quicksilver in DOFP set roughly 10 to 15 years earlier.

If Eric and Charles are roughly late 20's/ early 30's in First class in 62, they don't really feel old enough in X1, released in 2000 but set in 'the not to distant future', surely by the upcoming DOFP they would be old as heck/dead/in a retirement home not freedom fighting.

Similarly with Toad, in DOFP he's about 18, so by X1 he should be mid 40's but doesent really look it.

Why don't Wolverine and Sabretooth know each other in X1? You can argue Wolverine was mind wiped but Sabretooth doesen't seem to recognise him at all.

I'm sure there is more, just feels a bit like FOX are clinging to this franchise, with the announcement of Gambit appearing in Apocalyose and then getting his own solo movie, it seems like this franchise is never gonna end, for me, I'd take Apocalypse, then REBOOT!!

I don't disagree with you (though many around here will, as I'm sure youre already aware).

That being said, DoFP has gotten me somewhat excited about the potential for a few things. First of which is just the fact that its supposed to be the best yet. And judging by the trailers alone, I'm willing to believe that.

Second, as stated above it seems DoFP may indeed change history. Specifically:
1. The bulk of Wolverine's history post-WWII including Deadpool, Gambit and Sabretooth.
2. Scott and Jean's deaths.
3. Emma Frost's timeline jumping.

Sexy Magician 05-15-2014 12:17 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin (Post 28785437)
I don't disagree with you (though many around here will, as I'm sure youre already aware).

That being said, DoFP has gotten me somewhat excited about the potential for a few things. First of which is just the fact that its supposed to be the best yet. And judging by the trailers alone, I'm willing to believe that.

Second, as stated above it seems DoFP may indeed change history. Specifically:
1. The bulk of Wolverine's history post-WWII including Deadpool, Gambit and Sabretooth.
2. Scott and Jean's deaths.
3. Emma Frost's timeline jumping.

Finally someone who agrees! I am well aware of people disagreeing with me, I have posted my desire for a reboot in many threads and the only replies are in disagreement.
X-Men is my favourite group and contains my favourite characters from all comic book land, so naturally I'm passionate about the movies. I still had an open mind after Last Stand, but Origins just down right pissed me off, I haven't even bothered watching The Wolverine.

DOFP though, like yourself, has me excited for the X-franchise again, I can't wait to see it, but even if it's as good as the trailers suggest, I still want a reboot. For me to much has already been messed up, and they've already ruined so many great characters.

It's 14 years on since X1, I think it's time to put Jackman, Stewart and co to bed.

pr0xyt0xin 05-15-2014 02:50 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
That and I do love McAvoy and Fassbender in their respective roles. I get genuinely excited when they are on screen in First Class. I love Mckellen and Stewart as well, but its a somewhat less exciting love.

Not to say First Class was perfect either, but it was certainly a fun movie and brought new (non-wolverine) light to the series.

And that's really all it comes down to, they need to broaden their horizons and emphasize other great characters. Hell, had Last Stand just focused on Scott and Jean instead of Logan and Jean it wouldve been something I'd've preferred to watch, that's for sure.

But yeah, I agree with you. It was hard for me to justify supporting Fox at all for a very long time. Considering between X2 and First Class, they put out:
Elektra
Fantastic Four
Last Stand
Fantastic Four 2
Origins Wolverine

2005 - 2007. A dark time for comic book movies in general When you add Spider-Man 3 and Superman Returns to that list.

Anyway, enough about all that. Obviously I'll wait to see it, but I kinda see DoFP as a reboot as it is. It's not the traditional reboot, but the traditional reboot gets a lot of flak from fans of comic books and cinema alike. So it doesn't bother me if they want to try something new. A creative reboot if you will.

Sexy Magician 05-15-2014 03:26 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin (Post 28787225)
That and I do love McAvoy and Fassbender in their respective roles. I get genuinely excited when they are on screen in First Class. I love Mckellen and Stewart as well, but its a somewhat less exciting love.

Not to say First Class was perfect either, but it was certainly a fun movie and brought new (non-wolverine) light to the series.

And that's really all it comes down to, they need to broaden their horizons and emphasize other great characters. Hell, had Last Stand just focused on Scott and Jean instead of Logan and Jean it wouldve been something I'd've preferred to watch, that's for sure.

But yeah, I agree with you. It was hard for me to justify supporting Fox at all for a very long time. Considering between X2 and First Class, they put out:
Elektra
Fantastic Four
Last Stand
Fantastic Four 2
Origins Wolverine

2005 - 2007. A dark time for comic book movies in general When you add Spider-Man 3 and Superman Returns to that list.

Anyway, enough about all that. Obviously I'll wait to see it, but I kinda see DoFP as a reboot as it is. It's not the traditional reboot, but the traditional reboot gets a lot of flak from fans of comic books and cinema alike. So it doesn't bother me if they want to try something new. A creative reboot if you will.

I liked First Class, it was a decent movie, and I rejoiced when I learned Wolverine wasn't going to be in it, (save for his cameo), not that I don't like Wolverine, who doesn't like Wolverine? It's just the X-Men have so many great characters, making the movies Wolverine fests betrays the rest of the characters. As much as I'm looking forward to DOFP, it's looking like a Wolverine movie, with the X-Men as supporting cast......again. I can see them rewriting the timeline, so yeah it is a reboot in essence, but I would much prefer a traditional reboot, new cast, new stories, and Wolverine being introduced in the 2nd movie at the earliest!

Fox has dished out some pretty horrible Marvel films in its history, only God knows what the Fantastic Four reboot has installed for us.

pr0xyt0xin 05-22-2014 04:34 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
So (still havent seen DoFP) but theoretically the only movie that has any bearing on it is First Class. But also the prologue of Origins am i right?

I mean that might sound like blasphemy but its just young james howlett/victor creed and their US war montage. Anyone cool with that?

Also the Nagasaki sequences from The Wolverine.

xrs13 05-22-2014 04:46 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
No all films lead into it, there are flashbacks to all films and you need the films in order to be at the point of dofp. from this point on however its a clean slate.

pr0xyt0xin 05-22-2014 04:52 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Oh no I get that. But I guess I'm just kinda saying thats probably what Singer meant when he was saying he can't fix everything. The origin stuff in both Wolvie movies, specifically, is not affected by DoFP in the slightest.

xrs13 05-22-2014 05:03 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Oh yeah in that case thats true, probably also the ages xavier and mags met and other little things :)

psylockolussus 05-23-2014 04:29 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
To make it simple, we are now in Timeline B.

ToilesHeroiques 05-23-2014 06:09 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
In Timeline Trilogy (X-Men Trilogy + Wolverine movies), Sentinels are not deployed since 1973, the mutants are not hunted for decades, William Stryker and Logan meet during the Vietnam War.

In Timeline Apocalypse (X-Men : Days of Future Past), Sentinels are deployed since 1973, the mutants are hunted for decades (=> 25Moments.com/TheBentBullet.com), William Stryker and Logan do not know each other when the war is over.

1) Timeline Trilogy : The Story of the X-Men saga unfolds exactly as we know it. Apocalypse (?) alters the past and causes a hellish chain of events (with the death of Azazel, Tempest, Riptide = breaking point = beginning of Mystique's crusade). Then we are switching to...

2) Timeline Apocalypse : The history of the X-Men saga occurred broadly. The death of Cyclops and Jean Grey are constants, the Battle of Alcatraz is a constant battle against the Wolverine Silver Samurai is a constant, etc ... In 2023, the mutants are on the verge of extinction. Wolverine is sent into the past to save the future. Then we are switching to ...

3) New Timeline : It begins with the events of X -Men : Days of Future Past (part of the film set in the past). The action of Wolverine saves the future. In 1973 , everything is now possible (=> X-Men : Apocalypse). In the future , all is possible too. Logan is now the only person on Earth who remembers the Timeline Apocalypse. Final scene of X -Men : Days of Future Past.

CyclopsSummers 05-23-2014 08:42 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
As we know these are 3 periods in movies universe: past, present, future

-Past : 1962(1st class) -->1973(DOFP)

-Present : 2005 (X1) until 2015 (Wolverine's ending). Present is finally modified (future movies).

-Future : 2023 (DOFP reality) . Finally modified in a "happy future" (DOFP 's end)


After this prequel trilogy (1stClass, DOFP, Apocalypse) I wish they will make X4 which focus in present, erasing X-men'original trilogy + Wolverine'spin-off due to Wolverine's actions in DOFP. Logically, X4 movie should be X-men Apocalypse 's sequel

pr0xyt0xin 05-23-2014 01:09 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
So 1980s was indeed confirmed by Kinberg/Singer. But I would say they should do just 1980. 7 years after DoFP. Obviously the younger cast isn't aging quite this fast in real life. So 36 year old Mcavoy/38 year old Fassbender being almost 50 is already gonna be a stretch. But also it leaves more room in the 80s and 90s to be explored in future sequels/inbetweenquels.

pr0xyt0xin 05-23-2014 01:21 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
And it would seem that theres truly only one timeline remaining. The way time travel seems to work in this, once the past has been changed it just changes the modern/future timeline to match it.

So Kitty pushes Wolvie's consciousness back for just long enough for the change to be drastic enough (Mystiques choice) to force the future X-Men to a different reality. As shown by the entire event just disappearing rather than continuing on a divergent path.

In other words X1, X2, X3 were completely wiped, not just running parallel to a new timeline.

Jumpman 05-23-2014 03:01 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin (Post 28866377)
And it would seem that theres truly only one timeline remaining. The way time travel seems to work in this, once the past has been changed it just changes the modern/future timeline to match it.

So Kitty pushes Wolvie's consciousness back for just long enough for the change to be drastic enough (Mystiques choice) to force the future X-Men to a different reality. As shown by the entire event just disappearing rather than continuing on a divergent path.

In other words X1, X2, X3 were completely wiped, not just running parallel to a new timeline.

Yeah. I agree with this.

The new future of 2023 that we see at the end of DAYS OF FUTURE PAST is essentially created by what happens after this film. So what ever films we get after this film are in the same timeline as the ending of this film in 2023.

Great Mind(s) 05-23-2014 03:03 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Which again, makes the prequel films limited in what they can do because we know the future has Scott, Jean, Beast, Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Iceman and Logan... so there has to be more time travel shenanigans and more OT characters and all kindsa stuff.

Jumpman 05-23-2014 03:10 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Mind(s) (Post 28867359)
Which again, makes the prequel films limited in what they can do because we know the future has Scott, Jean, Beast, Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Iceman and Logan... so there has to be more time travel shenanigans and more OT characters and all kindsa stuff.

Yes, the prequel films are limited but I don't see the main cast of FIRST CLASS coming back for more than just APOCALYPSE.

To get around this problem with the prequel films being set by events of the future, you just focus on characters we didn't see in the new 2023...spinoff characters.

pr0xyt0xin 05-23-2014 03:13 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Mind(s) (Post 28867359)
Which again, makes the prequel films limited in what they can do because we know the future has Scott, Jean, Beast, Storm, Kitty, Rogue, Iceman and Logan... so there has to be more time travel shenanigans and more OT characters and all kindsa stuff.

Honestly I wouldnt mind that.

What if they explained it just by A. touching on the events of DoFP in the prologue (which will likely happen anyway to catch people up) and B. addressing that among Apocalypse's many mutations (including immortality and phoenix-level telekinesis) he doesn't share the same type of relationship with time as most living beings. Kinda in the same vein as Dr. Manhattan. He travels alongside time, rather than through it. idk. That probably doesn't make sense. lol!

Jumpman 05-23-2014 03:36 PM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
So because I don't know the source material, what's the gist of the story of Age of Apocalypse?

And why would we not see the original trilogy characters take on this villain instead of the FIRST CLASS characters?

psylockolussus 05-24-2014 12:34 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin (Post 28867429)
Honestly I wouldnt mind that.

What if they explained it just by A. touching on the events of DoFP in the prologue (which will likely happen anyway to catch people up) and B. addressing that among Apocalypse's many mutations (including immortality and phoenix-level telekinesis) he doesn't share the same type of relationship with time as most living beings. Kinda in the same vein as Dr. Manhattan. He travels alongside time, rather than through it. idk. That probably doesn't make sense. lol!

Its just gonna be a mess to this new timeline if Apocalypse didn't stay true to what we saw in the altered future.

It makes me wonder, why is saving the future so important if what we saw in the altered future isn't even set in stone.

Jumpman 05-24-2014 07:56 AM

Re: Timeline(s) in Apocalypse
 
Holy ****, epiphany.

What if APOCALYPSE ends in a cliffhanger where it's obvious that while the FIRST CLASS characters defeated the character of Apocalypse, it was a temporary defeat?

What if he returns to the new future of 2023 to have one final battle with the cast of the Original Trilogy...considering the new future of 2023 is connected to the events of 1973?


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