Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay
And the fact that Xavier was like a father to him, and how he believed in Xavier and his dream, and how he was willing to fight to keep Xavier's dream alive even in Xavier's absence.
They showed him being no non-sense when it came to the X-Men.
They showed his love and compassion to those around him.
The fact that he said "Storm, fry him", indicating lighting into a metal room, does NOT mean that they portrayed him as incompetant, or stupid, or a bad leader. Just like people have to nit pick about bridge lengths to say that X-Men: The Last Stand is a bad film, it's the same thing here. People have to nitpick a particular order that was debunked by the villian, or the fact that he didn't have the smoothest of landings, on WATER, to support their *****es that Cyclops wasn't done right.
It's a shame, really.
But I'm not saying that's you personally, because I haven't seen any of that from you, to be honest. So because you disagree with me, I'm not labelling you among that general group of fans that acts like that. I'm just expressing a general point of view, and your post happened to be the launching pad, but I don't mean to throw you into that mix.
Don't get me wrong. I used to have similar thoughts back in the days.
It's just that everything they got "right" (meh) is so f***** DILUTED
that it almost becomes a joke.
1 - Take the Scott/Xavier relationship...
Seemed pretty much one-sided to me.
We got Cyke talking to a comatose Xavier. Then WHAT exactly?
His 'some more than others' (or whatever) line at the end of X2?? Would be touching if if the prof didn't give up on Cyke after EIGHT f*****n months
I won't use this last one as an argument per se
, but I'll throw it out there anyway. I firmly believe that Xavier never said a f*****n thing about the voices in Cyke's heads and how dangerous going to Alkali was because he liked the idea of the 'prodigal daughter's miraculous return to life' better than the 'having to deal with the weepy emo broken son' thingy.
Harsh, yes. Anyone's guess, I know. Still, there's more going on for
such a theory.
Think about it. He's willing to DIE
to for a bloodthirsty/homicidal Jean/Phoenix. But he can't be bothered to not write Cyke off or shed ONE f****n tear? Rotflmao.
2 - The no-nonsense leader
He talks big
but fails at about the worst possible moments. Due to bad writing, I know, but still...
3 - The 'fry him' / bad landing argument
I'm sorry, but I obstinately maintain they can be used as argument. Why? The so-called 'screw-ups' were just there so that another character would get a one-liner at Cyclops' expense (bad writing, I know, but it's still there).
I never said it made him a failure. Christ, anyone but a world-class pilot would've managed to not f*** up that water landing (which Cyke didn't really do). Still, it came out as if Logan had any right to be righteously whiny
about the thing.
And that 'fry him' line. There's nothing indicating that Cyke didn't KNOW exactly what he was doing. He might very well have thought 'if we go down, so do you, old man'. It's just that Mags get a decent one-liner while Cyke doesn't. Also, the writers never explore dCyke's reaction to the Liberty Island debacle. It sure as hell LOOKS
All I'm saying is that the writers don't care to make him look bad (without bothering to explain, really) just so others would look good/better.
Think about it. I like to think those examples don't qualify at nit picking
X1: The way he gets PWNED at the train station and at Liberty Island by Toad. Little more than to prove that movieverse Toad is an actual threat to the good guys.
Fine, so Jean and Storm get PWNED by Toad, too. Still, he goes down first
. Oh yeah, and Storm gets to fry Toad. I'll admit Jean gets screwed over real bad in X1, but she gets a serious boost in X2 and becomes next to invincible while Scott...
X2: Getting his a$$$ kicked by Deathstrike. Going down in ONE HIT just to set up the villain for Logan's big fight. At least Logan didn't get a legit victory (bwahahahaha), but still...
One could start arguing over the Scott/Jean fight, but both were holding back, so we can't get much out of that one. *shrugs*
X3: Getting 'incapacitated' offscreen by Phoenix to prove she's evil.
Come on, I'm not making up the whole 'Cyke is everyone else's b**ch and goes down first' vibe we get from the movies. We might argue over the degree
, but, come on
. He's just there to get PWNED every time.
Hell, he's pretty much the ONLY good guy who never redeems himself in battle. That last one isn't opinion. It's FACT.
4 - Love/compassion thingy
Not much I can say about that one, really. It's just that the whole 'failure' angle seem to overshadow pretty much everything else. Agreeing with ya 110% here.
5 - Believing/fighting for the dream
Okay, he believes in the dream. Every other X-man/woman but Logan (at first) does that too. Big deal.
See no. 3 for the fighting part. Everyone else does it. AND BETTER AT THAT!!!!!!!
Trust me, back in the X1 & X2 days, I did use to argue about how Cyke didn't get badly screwed over.
Cynism just took over.
Trust me, I do not want to get into a flame war with ya. You make actual sense when posting. I semi-agree on quite a few Cyke-related things, too. It's just that cynism thingy I mentioned.
It's just that we might never agree or give each other a single inch of ground over the 'How Cyke got treated' issue.
Still fun debating/arguing without throwing insults around, though.