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Old 03-29-2008, 08:02 AM   #107
El Payaso
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Default Re: List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Simple.

[Don't get me wrong Batman(89) is an amazing movie when it comes to atmosphere and design]

I think the whole portrayal of Batman/Bruce Wayne is somehow... off. It's not that they changed the source material, that happens all the time and is for a movie who has only a restricted time frame somehow necessary. But you should - at least - get the essence of the material right. But Batman being a strange guy, totally emotionless and deranged doesn't feel like "the Batman" I read when I was young.
The guy had his parents killed randomly when he was 6. Youíll understand he might be a strange, somehow emotionless and deranged guy.

Thereís nothing wrong about that approach. Itís Frank Millerís approach, where Bruce Wayne itís all of that.

That said, he wasnít totally emotionless. And even Batman begins Ė also influenced by Millerís approach - got it right when it showed Bruce pretending to be the cool guy. But he wasnít.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
but Burton's Batman/Bruce Wayne... he is a pathetic looser.
Ridiculous. And a juvenil statement.

Being in emotional pain is far from being a loser.

And Burtonís Batman was cool. He said little and his movements were just a few, but everytime he moved, some guy fell to the floor unconscious.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
And what do you expect from a script writen by a guy who says things like "Batman is basically an insane guy who ****s up his love life".
What makes me wonder, what do you expect from a poster who says things like "Burtonís Batman is a pathetic loserĒ

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
The changes with the Penguin... man! some call it "better than the source material" but... what's the point?
The point is to be better than the source material.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
He isn't THE Penguin anymore.
Yes, he is. He even looks and feels more of a penguin than just being a chubby guy with a big nose. And his motivations are not only as strong as the comic books' version but him being deformed makes him a real tragic figure with a more powerful resentment towards society.

FAR better than the original. And still a penguin.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
He is a sewer monster out to kill the firstborn? WTF?
Yes, he is.

And so far that sounds far better then the comics version.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
They could have made the Penguin a Jedi Knight and some people would scream "Yeah, better than the source".
They could have made the Penguin a real memorable tragic monster-like figure better than the original and some people would scream "Yeah, but itís nothing like the comics".

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
But if you don't like the original character... why do you use him?
Because many elements from the original version are good. But the whole concept was still lame.

Like when Shakespeare took Hamlet and made it a better character with a better story. He improved the original material just like Burton did with the Penguin.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
And Catwoman? You know what the basic character gimmick was? She was a thief. Burton's Cat-Zombie is not a thief at all.
Again struggling with perfection for the sake of a tiny detail that wasnít important for the story. What can I say, ďIt's not that they changed the source material, that happens all the time and is for a movieĒ

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
(I don't have much to say about Nicholson's Joker. I think he did a decent job, but HE could have done better. He didn't play himself, he played Cesar-Romero-gone-homicidal.
So he did play a great Joker but darker? Booyah.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
And don't start with the illogical things.
You already monopolized that?

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Nobody knows about the Wayne murders. Yeah right.
^ The illogical things monopoly.

In comics and movies we know who he is. Yet some might reasonably think that a faceless murder is better for the story (revenge is impossible and pointless, crime has no face). And as much as I like B89 and BB's approaches, I find that quite a great idea.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
A parade of gangsters and no police... yes, of course.
Yes, of course.

In the movie itís fully explained. Major Borg said to Gotham that the authorities couldnít warrantee citizensí safety.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Penguin's men manipulating the Batmobile. It has all been discussed before.
Yeah, manipulating a car is virtually an absurd concept. In the illogical things monopoly system maybe.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
And Batman Forever is really a kind of redemption.
Sure. Nipples, butts, neon lights, the anti-Two-Face, many Riddlerís riddles that points to... nowhere (ďMr. EĒ!???? Thatís it???) Itís a pleasure. In the illogical things monopoly system that is.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Batman is so heroic in this movie. He says things like "Harvey, you need help!" and shows compassion (Keaton Batman would've probably thrown a grenade or something like that).
Oh sure.

ďHarvey, you need help. I can offer you a bunch of silver coins so you can lose balance and fall to your death. I hope you can appreciate my infinite compassion buddy.Ē

Illogical monopoly strikes again.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
His Bruce Wayne acts like in the comics.
Highly perturbed by his parentsí death. Something that Schumacher was luckily able to keep from Burtonís movies.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
This movie is really underrated.
Those Academy guys canít appreciate nipples! They need to go out more, in words of Schumacher himself.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
And the scene where he saves the doctor AND Robin has actually more real symbolism than anything Burton did.
It symbolized how people you love fall much slower than any other kind of person (like Harvey Dent, who Batman refused to save as he did with Robin and Chase) so you can save them on time.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
The Riddler and Two-Face are not exactly the way I would imagine them. The Riddler is too crazy, he is almost the Joker and Two-Face flips his coin until it is right for him? WTF?
Iíll tell you wtf.

Schumacher got many elements terribly wrong. And the changes were for the worst. Opposite to Burtonís movies. Two-Face was nothing of Two-Face and Riddler was played as Frank-Gorshin-gone-homicidal.

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