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Old 04-06-2008, 01:25 PM   #202
El Payaso
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Default Re: List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
I'm not.
Your writing seems to say otherwise. This very morning I catch a flaming spam-post of yours with gratuitous Burton-bashing that was healthily removed.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Funny enough that I am not even a Batman Begins Nolan fanboy. I've read Batman since the mid-80s, before Burton ever took a Batman comic in his hands.
Exaplain me how the earlier you read a comic makes you any better about understanding the character. Or worse, better about bashing some vision without much of a background.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
I don't care what other people say!
If you keep posting in here and replying to Doc, it is clear – once again – that your writing is not reflecting your statements about yourself.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
The changes made for Batman Begins were just there to fit the story. The essence of the characters was still right(er than Burton's take). Burton's Batman is a brooding psychopath, Nolan's Batman is a hero who gives his life to save other people.
This is a matter of composition.

The changes made for Batman 89 were just there to fit the story. They in fact are.

The essence of the characters was still right. To the Bob Kane era. The original Batman.

Burton's Batman is a hero who gives his life to save other people. True. Even when strictly speaking, none of the Batman versions have “given their lives” since they never died, but risked their lifes for sure.

Now, Burton’s Batman is not a psycho, but only carries the natural trauma of watching his parents die. That’s what puts the dark in the character.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Batman Returns was not about Batman. Yes, when you get superficial you can still say "It's a guy with batears". Yes, yes, yes.
Batears, batsuit, bat-weapons, batmobile, his parents were killed as a result he becomes an avenger. Penguin, Catwoman. Sounds a lot like Batman, the problem is that you wrote “yes’s” instead of getting the list right.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
A Batman who shots around with H&K firearms would still be Batman in some people's minds.
It still is.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
- The Penguin being a freak, raised by penguins??? That's stupid.
Oh yes. What does the Penguin character have to do with deformity and a penguin-like aspect? Nothing.

Once they even created this character who was raised by apes and became a jungle hero. Stupid, my man. Stupid. I won’t tell yopu why is stupid though, since you didn’t bother to explain your own point yourself.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
- Non-existant story and plot, just bits thrown around
Max Schreck, a greedy Gothamite industrial man wants to create a power plant just as a way to steal Gotham City’s power. He’s blackmailed by a deformed man called Oswald Cobblepot who wants to take advatage fo Schreck’s power to have a personal revenge on Gotham city. Schreck’s secretary, Selina Kyle, finds out his plans and he attempts to kill her. The experience makes Selina goes nuts and she adopts Catwoman’s personality. Bruce Wayne is trying to stop Schreck’s plans since he suspects there’s something else and as Batman, he suspects about the Penguin too, since it seems he and Schreck are accomplices. In the way he knows catwoman and falls in love with her at the same time that Bruce fell for Selina Kyle. Penguin and Catwoman meet and plan to destroy Batman’s reputation and frame him, so they both get rid of him, who’s interfering with thir plans (having a revenge on Gotham and Schreck, respectively).

I believe that not getting the plot is not the same as the plot not existing.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
- Penguin running for mayor? The Adam West show did that better.
No, it didn’t. In West’s show it was all about the humour of the situation. In Burton’s movie there was a criticism about how compassion and affection can serve as deception in politics.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
- The whole movie is there to please Burton's ego.
That’s a mere assumption of yours. You can’t prove it and it’s just about how much hatred you hold for the director, no more.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
It's not about Batman, really. That guy isn't Batman.
Yes he is. He looks, sounds and acts like Batman.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
It is a short man with a deranged minds who blows up people.
Oh please. And “Batman in Batman Begins is Patrick Bateman with a rubber suit”? And “what about Jim Morrison as Batman”?

Effort man. Effort.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Yeah, yeah, the original Bob Kane stuff.
Yeah, reality once again spoiling the fun for you.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
the guy there showed any mannerism of KeatonBatman. Yeah right.
I can agree with that bit.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
If I want to see the end30s Batman I watch "The Shadow", that's more Batman than Batman Returns, or better "Psychoman Returns With Depth"!
No, it’s not. That’d be The Shadow.

But you wouldn’t do wrong with posting in a Shadow board instead of here.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
I am versed enough. I am much older than you,
Again, what does age have to do with anything.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
I saw Batman's decline from a cool guy into a nutjob. I watched the Batman (1989) movie in the first week it came out. I experienced the hype.
Just like me.

I still don’t get what’s the part where I should go ‘Whoa, this guy has made a valid point!’

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Batman is a COOL GUY. A guy you WANT to be.
I see age doesn’t warrantee to get the character. At. All.

Yes, Batman is all about the happiness of being a hero. I so want to have a life-lasting trauma because someone killed my parents in front of me when I was a kid and I so want to spend my life fighting criminals as an obssession. How cool is that.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
A guy you COULD be (but in reality you can't, but you can think that). That was a constant factor. From 1939 to the mid-90s.
Not at all.

Batman’s incarnations (even Schumacher’s) have emphasized what a nightmare to be Batman is. A life having nightmares, a life of loneliness, without a woman you can love, no normal life, no happiness, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
But then (and in the Burton movies) Batman became a pathetic loser,
Far from being pathetic, he achieves his goals. Which makes him the opposite of a loser.

Maybe it’s time for you to purchase a good dictionary.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
a guy who never came to terms with his past. Yeah right.
Exactly. That’s Batman’s motivation.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Before it was only a motiviation, then it became madness.
It’s obssession.

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Originally Posted by Parents-Gun-Bat View Post
Yeah, but Sam Hamm thought of Batman as an insane guy, so what is to wonder about those movies?
I can’t care less what hamm thinks. He thought Batman’s wearing a cape was stupid.

But the movies worked wonderfully.

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