Originally Posted by Bubastis
Hear me out. I'm not trying to hate on the movie; I appreciate the things that it did for the Batman Franchise (for the better) and what it means to people. Visually it kicks major ass, Elfman's score still gives me goosebumps, and Jack Nicholson has fun as the joker.
Please, before you flame me, please keep in mind that this is my own personal opinion. OK.
But here's my other feeling on the film, and there are quotes from other people in here. I can't stand Keaton's hollow performance and lack of chemistry with the also hollow Kim Bassinger. (who was only in the film because of her relationship with Jon "Giant Spider" Peters) I hate the idea that Batman exists solely out of revenge for his parents, or that he would be willing to kill the joker with a gun. I hate the lack of any reason to care about any of the characters, I hate the lack of any connection between the moment where Bruce Wayne's parents are shot and Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, I hate the lack of any explanation as to how the Joker's Goons got on top of the church tower, I hate the way one shot from a six-shooter that has inexplicably been hidden in the joker's pant leg can destroy the frickin' bat-plane. I hate the poor characterization of Batman. The goddamn prince songs, to this day, make the film teeth-grittingly dated and unwatchable, as are the sequences of the Joker dancing like a moron to them. I don't know why the Joker feels the necessity to create an ant-batman PR campaign as if he has something to gain by the public hating batman, like they're running for mayor of Gotham. I don't know why Alfred would let Vicki into the batcave, or why Bruce would see anything in her, or why she would see anything in him. I hate her lack of reaction to Bruce Wayne being Batman.
And my big gripe:
The opening scene depicts two thugs mugging a Father, Mother, and son. The scene is clearly set up to be a parallel to the mudding that happened to a young Bruce Wayne. What does Batman do? He beats up the criminals. How are the father, mother, and son any better off than before Batman came along? They're still afraid to be on the streets of Gotham City, their purse is still gone, and the father is still in medical danger. But don't worry, the criminals were frightened by batman and beaten up. Gee, thanks caped crusader. Long-term, criminals are starting to hear about the batman. But would that provide any consolation to a young Bruce Wayne? Uhh...nope.
Again, this is just my personal opinion, but i wanted to get other people's take on it. I watched the flick a day ago in preparation for The Dark Knight, and felt surprisingly hollow, and felt like I had to remind myself to like and enjoy and root for the film.
Okay, this is your opinion, but however opinions can be null and void when factual events or evidence slaps you right in the face.
Batman didn't willingly go after Joker with a gun, he shot the grappling gun in an attempt to keep his ass on the roof. He never set out to kill Joker, it was never implied that he was going to as far as I remember, he beat the hell out of him on the church, yeah, and he said that he had to stop him but absolutely no indication that he'd kill Joker.
Keaton being hollow...Okay seriously, I hate to divide Batman fans like metalheads, but seriously? Do you need a Nolan to hold your hand through every movie/show/theater performance you see since you've seen Batman Begins? BB is a great movie, yes, but NOT every film after it needs to BE like it. In *MY* opinion, and in "reality" (not Nolans) Bruce Wayne would be emotionally hollow, it's been proven in the comics that he's somewhat unavailable in some emotional aspects, and though we start off following Batman in the 89 film in the alley, I think we get the hint that he's been doing this for quite some time now, not just a couple of weeks.
Keaton by far IS the best live action Batman, did we see him go over to Hong Kong or wherever the hell it was to train for an hour before he dons the Batman persona? Nope. He's an emotionally awkward scarred Bruce Wayne which is EXACTLY how he should be portrayed in the comics but seeing as how DC Comics writers can't write for crap in a consistent manner when it comes to the caped crusader, throw any understanding of psychological value out the window now.
The Joker dancing, being weird, eccentric, OFF HIS FREAKING ROCKER?! Why so serious? ...I mean, are you serious? Have you read the comic books? He does weird things, like I dunno, shoot Jim Gordon's daughter through the stomach and into (past?) the spine, paralyzing her and WHILE she crashes down on the coffee table, he makes sick jokes about coffee table books having weak spines. I mean c'mon now...
And ALTHOUGH every other Batman obsessed fanatic has a problem with Alfred letting Vicki Vale into the Batcave, how about we all pay attention to what Bruce Wayne's only living parent said earlier:
That he has no need to spend the rest of his remaining years grieving for the loss of loved ones, or their sons.
That man, is THE BEST Alfred because he puts Bruce in his place and reminds him to stop being so obsessed with Batman, or spending so much time in the cave brooding. I view the Vicki Vale issue not bad, a violation of Bruce and Alfred's trust? Yes. Alfred's one last attempt to show Bruce that he can have a sense of normalcy in his life? You betcha.
This is the problem I have with the boards (I'm not *****ing, mind you) is that to me DC Comics completely alienates their fans by not showing the true complexity that is Batman and thus we have posts like this one, while not ignorant, or useless, however it makes no sense because to me minus the fact The Joker was a criminal before being scarred by chemicals is the best Batman film ever.