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Old 09-29-2008, 07:59 PM   #117
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Default Re: Why Does Frank Miller Hate Superman?

Originally Posted by C. W. Saturn View Post
All Star Batman and Year One in one strict and tight continuity doesn't make much sense. The tone is too different.
The tone is different because Batman in All-Star Batman & Robin is very different from Batman in Batman: Year One. In Batman: Year One he was very young and inexperienced. Miller explains in Amazing Heroes #102 (1987). "He's very young, very enthusiastic. He may be Batman at his most joyful. He's a young man. He's also a Batman who makes a lot of mistakes. He's a young man who charges out thinking he can change the world on his own. He learns that he can't. He finds out that the abilities of one man are limited, even an extraordinary man like him. No matter how skilled you are, if the numbers are against you, you need a psychological advantage, which is what the bat costume gives him. Even as he learns the bat-symbolism to scare people, he finds himself very quickly outnumbered."

In Wizard #162 ('05), Jim Lee and Dan DiDio explained about Batman in All-Star Batman & Robin: "It's Batman in his prime!" Lee says excitedly. "Batman is more of an S.O.B. than in Batman: Year One. I think he's tougher; more of a force of nature. Don't stand in his way because nothing is going to stop him." "Batman has also never experienced the lose of a partner (as Batman in Dark Knight Returns had)," DiDio adds. "He's in the process of training someone to stand by his side while he perfects his craft."

And even with DKR it doesn't really work, because in All Star Batman is MUCH worse than in DKR and the point in DKR is his raised violence because he broke his oath.
The point of The Dark Knight Returns is that "he was born to be Batman and during the ten years that precede the series he's a dead man because he broke his oath," says Miller in Comics Interview #31 (1986). "Bruce Wayne goes through the motions but there's no one home. In the beginning of the series in fact, Bruce refers to Batman as "him." During the ten years that he hasn't been Batman he's gotten into racing cars. But he was born to be Batman, and whatever Bruce Wayne might have been is completely irrelevant. Bruce Wayne is Batman's host body. Bruce Wayne died when his parents go blown away. He really loves fighting crime. He's fighting what is in his mind a holy war. In my series I put forth the idea that he was always going to be Batman, that his parents murder was as inevitable as him putting the costume on. In fact, I have an incident earlier in his life that foreshadows what's going to happen to him (when he falls down into the cave as a child and meets the bats). Fate. And the whole problem with Batman is that he makes no compromises along the way. When he comes out of retirement he acts exactly as he did before.

I stress that Superman and Batman are enemies, and that Superman and Batman have been enemies for decades. They've never liked each other. Batman has tremendous contempt for Superman because he's such a "good boy," because he takes orders, from the President, among other people. Superman is something of a federal agent. And Superman, frankly, is scared of Batman. Because Batman represents to a certain extent, his own dark side. Which Superman doesn't want to look at. They imply completely different points of view. Superman implies a benevolent world - Batman implies a malevolent world. I cannot see two personalities like that getting along, acting friendly."

Half-man, half-bat.
Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe View Post
Manbat I adore you, those articles were amazing thanks!!!
Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Honesty, God bless you Man-Bat.
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Wow, brilliant post, man. Seriously, I couldn't possibly counter debate that. That post is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. You're obviously a true scholar of Batman lore
You've convinced me. Well played, sir. It's great to debate with someone who has the hard facts to back up what they say
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