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Old 01-18-2010, 08:16 PM   #33
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Cool Re: Neal Adam's Batman Odyssey

It's exciting to see Neal Adams drawing full issues of Batman comics again for the first time since the Power Records Batman comic "Robin Meets Man-Bat" in 1976.

Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
All i see is a drawing of a beardless Aquaman.
I am just saying that they should have made something more contemporary looking.
I've never liked Aquaman with a beard, I like Neal Adams redesign of Aquaman and I like a variety of art. I'm glad Neal Adams sticks to his own style. Neal Adams' style is timeless. Artists should try to develop their own style rather than fifty guys all trying to draw like Jim Lee to be a 'contemporary hot' artist. "This guy is doing this, and people seem to respond to it, I'll just do that, too." Well, after a while: Seen it once, seen it all.

Originally Posted by Drz View Post
3) Miller is only helping with the dialogue. This won't be his Batman and Neal Adams + the Editors will make sure it is THEIR Batman. NOT the God Damn Batman.
Neal Adams said Batman: Odyssey will be like All-Star Batman in tone and Neal Adams said he thinks Frank may whip some crudeness into it.
Neal Adams is actually a boundary pusher himself with some very Dark grim 'n' gritty stuff, but in the Bronze Age '70s they called it Relevance in comics.
It was Neal Adams idea to have Speedy shooting up heroin. Neal Adams explained, "'We've got to do something on drug addiction,' but of course it's against the Comic Code, so I went home and I did that first cover [Green Lantern #85 (1971)]. You know, with Speedy [shooting up heroin]. I penciled it and I inked it and I put the lettering in and I brought it in and I gave it to Julie Schwartz and his hand grabbed it very briefly and then he dropped it on the desk as if it were on fire. He said, "We can't do this." I said, "Well, we ought to." He said, "You know we can't do this. It's against everything." I said, "Well, this is where we're going. This is what we ought to be doing." So he said, "You're out of your mind. Once again, you're being a pain in the ass." So I took it into Carmine [Infantino]. Carmine didn't know what to make of it. I took it into the Kinney people, who were now running DC Comics and were sort of used to this and of course they dropped it like a hot potato. I said, "You know guys this is where we ought to be going with this." "Oh, no, Neal, please, just go and work. Leave us alone. You can't do this." And of course Julie had a twinkle in his eye, but still he knew it was ********, it wasn't going to happen. He said, "Why did you finish the cover?" I said, "Well, because it's going to get printed." "No, this will never get printed." Anyway, I make a visit over to Marvel Comics a week or so later and somebody comes over to me, probably Roy [Thomas] or somebody, I don't know and says, "You know what Stan's [Lee] doing?" I said, "What?" He says, "He had this guy, this drug addict popping pills and he like walks off a roof [in Amazing Spider-Man #96 (1971)]." I said, "Stan had a guy popping pills and he walks off a roof? That's kind of a unique situation." (Laughter.) "I don't exactly know where you're going to find that, you know I don't know who's going to be walking off a roof." "Well, you know Stan read some kind of article about a guy who went off a roof." "Oh, okay. Sure. All right. Whatever." And he said, "So we did it and we sent it over to the Comics Code and the Comics Code rejected it, they said he has to change it." So I said, "Well, what's Stan gonna do?" "He's not gonna change it." "You're kidding." He says, "No. Not gonna change it. We're just gonna send it out, it's ready. It's going to be on the stands next week. Week after next." "Really? No ****. What about the Comics Code seal?" "Not gonna put the Comics Code seal on it." "Really?" So sure enough, he sends it out and I go over to Marvel Comics since I heard it was out and I go over and I say, "What happened?" He said, "Nobody said anything." "Nobody said anything?" "Nobody even noticed that the seal wasn't on there." "No ****. Nobody even noticed?" So I go back to DC, you know, and now that word had gotten out, oh ****. Now try to imagine DC, they've got this cover, right? Could have scooped Stan with something real and solid. They screwed up. So within a day or two they call a meeting of the Comics Code Authority. Remember the Comics Code Authority is bought for and paid for by the comic book companies. It doesn't exist independently. It's a self-regulating organization. So DC calls Marvel, they call Archie, they go and have this emergency meeting. "We're going to revise the Comics Code!" Okay, within a week they revised the Code and within a week and a half they tell me and Denny to go ahead with the story."

And Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams had Green Arrow smacking Speedy around.

An All-Star Batman & Robin cover by Neal Adams depicts Hal Jordan all bloodied up as he's getting attacked by Robin and Batman completely ignoring this and reading some paper. In the tradition of the Bronze Age, the cover is more outrageous and attention grabbing than the event in the story.

That Neal Adams cover is actually more brutal than the scene in Frank Miller's story. In Frank Miller's story Batman actually pays attention and puts a stop to it when Robin goes too far.
Neal Adams has also been creating a series, without Frank Miller, called Blood which Neal Adams described as "A lot of it is shooting, killing and punching."
Neal Adams: "I'm doing a thing called Blood, which is a series of graphic novels, there's lots of killing and blood flying out of people's heads and **** like that."

So don't expect Neal Adams to want a wholesome Neo-Silver Age Batman, especially when he wants Frank Miller to write Batman's dialogue, Neal Adams is clearly having Batman using guns.

And Neal Adams said about the Silver Age Batman "when the imitat—or Bob Kane "ghosts" and Carmine Infantino did it, I really didn't feel that that was Batman, but that was the campy time, when they were doing the TV show. That really wasn't anything that intrigued me. It seemed, in fact, anti-Batman.
You know, when you have a guy walking in his underwear on the street in the middle of the day, and kids go, [whiny kid voice] "Mommy! It's a man in a grey costume-."

Originally Posted by Motown Marvel View Post
miller has become a rather craptastic writer.
Frank Miller's getting hated by some fanboys today because he wont change with the comics trends from Dark Age to Neo-Silver Age. Frank Miller is still writing his Dark grim 'n' gritty hardcore Batman while some fanboys today want a lighthearted wholesome Neo-Silver Age Batman, which Grant Morrison is giving them with Dick Grayson as Batman and James Tucker is giving them with the Neo-Silver Age Batman: The Brave & The Bold cartoons.

Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Miller has become a parody of himself but what makes it funnier is that he never was THAT great of a writer in the first place, but ironically this is exactly why I enjoy his recent work. It's like a giant F U to all the fans that overrated his work throughout the years and all the writers that completely misinterpreted his use of a more extreme Batman after TDKR. He's like "you want dark and vulgar I'LL GIVE YA dark and vulgar".
I disagree with you're opinion that Frank Miller never was that great of a writer in the first place, and All-Star Batman & Robin is not a parody of his Dark grim 'n' gritty Batman, it IS Miller's Dark grim 'n' gritty Batman taking place in year three.
He intends it as a serious story, while also providing some comic relief so it's not overwhelmingly dark and negative. The humor comes from the characters interactions with each other. Robin calling the cars name queer, etc., is obviously meant to be funny. Frank Miller said, "There’s always banter back and forth, where Robin thinks that a lot of the stuff Batman does is old fashioned and weird, and kind of odd – and this is Batman, who is all of 24 or 25. But when you’re 12, a 24 or 25 year old is Methuselah."
And Batman's wisecracks are obviously meant to be funny, and it's not out of character, Batman wisecracking goes back to the original Finger and Kane material. Dirty Harry wisecracks, and that doesn't make the Dirty Harry films parody's, either. Some people complain that some of the dialogue in All-Star Batman is laughable, not realizing that some of the dialogue is meant to be laughable. Frank Miller is known for his Dark grim 'n' gritty stories, which leads some people to think that everything Miller writes is meant to be completely serious, which is clearly not the case. Why does Frank Miller mix humor into it? By adding dashes of humor you take them from a moment of humor and plunge them into momentary darkness, which can heighten the effects of the unexpected horror. Noir, horror and humor can definitely co-exist. Horror alone runs the risk of becoming depressing and predicable. Horror-humor mixed is one solution to this. There is a lot of humor in Dark Knight Returns and Year One, too, which some people seem to overlook. In Year One: Batman body slamming prostitutes. Gordon's wife saying "Maybe you should call the zoo" when told about a giant bat, Flass in a neck-brace and a band-aid calling Batman "it" and calling the Batarangs "little dart things" as the other cops laugh, Batman hogtied the Roman nude and put his Rolls Royce in the river, Gordon thinking Harvey Dent is Batman, Selina's Siamese cat with Batman and Batman punching the cop through the wall for trying to shot it. Everybody in the crowd, every member of the swat team, every cop, getting vaccinated in the ass for their bat bites "Never has so many had so much trouble sitting down." Selina robbing Commissioner Loeb thinking he'd have jewels or paintings, and all he has are Disney toys and Charles Schulz Peanuts toys and baby dolls. Alfred: "Master Bruce--I've just come across a fascinating piece in the times. Concerns the effects of lack of sleep among the marginally sane...'Marked increase in paranoia'...hmmm...'Tendency toward aberrant, even violent behavior'...Of again, sir? Shall I fetch your tights?" And Catwoman annoyed at the news thinking she's Batman's assistant.
Dark Knight Returns, which is the one that is considered to be the darkest, has even more humor: Alfred says "If it's suicide you're after, Master Bruce, I have the recipe for an old family potion. It's slow working and quiet painful, you'd like it. Wayne infirmary. It's Gordon , sir. Shall I tell him you're incapacitated? He'll just have to wear it wet. You know, sir, that there is a precedent for wheel-chair detectives.." "Shut up, Alfred." Robin putting a firecracker in the gamblers pants.

Batman's "Rubber bullets. Honest." Robin's stoned hippie parents. Batman calling Dick, "My little monkey wrench" and remembering Two-Face calling him "Robin the Boy Hostage", the news reporting that porn star Hot Gates is making a version of Snow White. "I'm doing for the kids," says Gates. Reagan offering Superman a mint and a medal and comparing Batman to a crazy bronco at the ranch. The Mutant leader with band-aids on his noise. Batman revealing his secret identity to Carrie and Alfred freaking out "Sir! You're delirious, Sir. You just rest now--Don't try to speak." Batman disguised as a crazy obese homeless woman. Robin hitting Bruno in the head with a metal ball from her slingshot. Robin saying, "Figure we've been doing the spider here for less than three years." The doll saying, "Eyuuh yourself, *****." Reagan in a star-spangled suit. Alfred: "The Committee for the Prevention of Obsessive Behavior in Middle-Aged Men" Batman: "Write them a check." Batman telling Robin to sit up straight and then she slouches. Robin: "This thing pack a cloak?" Batman: "Yes, how'd you know about.." Robin: "Old news boss." Bobbie saying to Joker's henchmen, "Go screw, fat boy. God damn milk baby." David (Endochrine) Letterman and Paul Shaffer are of course comedic and Joker's Doctor saying the nature of Batman's psychosis is sexual repression. The Joker kissing and killing Dr. Ruth. Robin messing with the controls after Batman told her not to. Joker dressing up Selina as Wonder Woman in bondage. Joker telling Batman "Your out of your mind." The little kid telling Joker "Batman's gonna kick your ass." Batman telling the kid, "Watch your language, son." Batman spiting on the Joker's face as a goodbye. Batman punching Commissioner Yindel out. Alfred: "Bloody walking hospital bed...", Superman saying to Robin, "Isn't tonight a school night?" Green Arrow saying, "Hiyo Goddamn silver" and "Goddamn fascist sons of *****es" and Robin calling Green Arrow "Spud."

Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
And obviously, knowing Miller, it will be filled with whores
That '06 whores, whores, whores Shortpacked satire by David Willis:
was a parody of Miller's writing on Sin City since many of the characters are prostitutes in Sin City and Goldie, Lucille, Marley Shelton and Becky are killed in Sin City. Sin City is a tribute to classic pulp noir: ladies of the evening femme fatales are a noir archetype and characters getting killed are a noir archetype. Not a summery of Miller's writing as a whole. Ignorant moronic comic book geeks took the Shortpacked satire seriously and think Frank Miller is a woman hating sexist pig, which he obviously isn't. Miller's creations Casey McKenna in Ronin, Carrie Kelley (Robin/Catgirl) in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Again, Martha Washington in the Give Me Liberty books, Chastity McBride in Elektra Assassin, Commissioner Ellen Yindel in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns are not prostitutes or killed, and are strong female characters. Carrie Kelly outwitted the mutants and saved Batman's life twice in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and lead the Batboys, rescued the Atom and the Flash in Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Again. That's a strong female role model. Frank Miller depicts Wonder Woman in All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder and Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Again as an aggressive feminist. It's clear Frank Miller regards Black Canary in All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder as a strong female character. She has anger at being objectified by sexist thugs, so she kicks their asses. Frank Miller's young upbeat walking, running and jumping Batgirl in All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder is much more fun than the grim permanently paralyzed Barbara Gordon. Why did Frank Miller tell Jim Lee to draw Vicki Vale in her underwear and add a close up of Vicki Vale's ass in All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder #1?: "Because I'm a guy! And Jim Lee is a guy who draws really good-looking women. That's the real answer, as opposed to the more professional answer, which is that I find it amazing that people will accept anything with a woman in a thong jumping across rooftops, but the minute you actually have a real woman in panties and a bra – and all she's doing is her job, she's not with anybody – people get in a lather over that, and I'm going, like, 'Where have you been? Is there something wrong with looking at a gorgeous woman who's scantily dressed?'"
The definition of a whore is a woman who obtains payment in exchange for sex. To be sexually active does not mean that the woman is being paid. Vicki Vale, Black Canary, Batgirl, Wonder Woman in All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder are not whores.

Originally Posted by Mace Dolex View Post
Neal Adams doing Batman is gold but isn't Frank still doing that whole garbage of Batman vs. Osama Bin Laden?
I have no problem with Batman fighting Al-Qaeda terrorists.

Originally Posted by rogue trooper View Post

Half-man, half-bat.
Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe View Post
Manbat I adore you, those articles were amazing thanks!!!
Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Honesty, God bless you Man-Bat.
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Wow, brilliant post, man. Seriously, I couldn't possibly counter debate that. That post is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. You're obviously a true scholar of Batman lore
You've convinced me. Well played, sir. It's great to debate with someone who has the hard facts to back up what they say

Last edited by theMan-Bat; 05-27-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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