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Old 10-06-2010, 11:43 PM   #37
GothamAlleys
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Default Re: The Joker's background?

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Originally Posted by ironman29758 View Post
the orgin came in 1950.
Yes, and they came from Bob Kane and Bill Finger, the creators of the character, not some outsiders. In time all the villains were given origins and it was still within the first decade of the series. And correction - Joker was given origins in 1951 in Detective Comics #168, not 1950

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The producers did say they were inspired by the first 2 appearances of Joker in Batman# 1 so that's how I veiw it a modernized hyper-realistic Joker/Joker Returns from Batman# 1/Long Halloween:
And Nolan also said that while he was a fan of the character, he knows nothing about the comic books and also that he was given Batman #1 and The Killing Joke when the script for TDK was already written

I know all those because I own them for quite some time and also wrote on Retrojunk.com about the similarities between Batman#1, The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight

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No one knows who Joker is and nothing about him
And yet it wasnt some mystical element of the Joker. Nobody had origins in the beginning, not even Batman. They all just were, simply because it was 1930's and comic book stories weren't as complex as they were later on, and besides, nobody's is given origins and all the info and characteristics in its first appearance. Very soon after, as the villains were starting to reappear, just like Batman they were given origins as well (The first to get one was Two Face). And again, they were given the origins by none else than the creators of the character themselves

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Joker's look like a realistic version of first appearnce
Not really. The original Joker already had all white skin and the purple gangster suit completed with the hat. Pinstripes came up very soon. I think "roots" can be attributed to the first few years at least while were talking about 7 decades, not just one or 2 issues. Batman since the very beginning, even before he had his own comic book was fighting bizarre villains. The idea was to have Batman a realistic character but his villains being as bizarre as possible, simply because Bob was inspired by Dick Tracy. In early 1940’s alone he was up against villains like the Mole, Pruneface, Flattop, the Brow and a gang of monstrous giants. Dick Tracy faced a spectacular array of bizarre villains, and to some extent Batman followed his lead. (Batman: The Complete History, published by DC)

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(Joker is described as having a “mask-like” face(could be seen as the war paint)
No, it cant. Its been made clear that Joker's face had a frozen smile and that he didnt wear makeup. His entire skin was white and there was never any indication that it was paint, just the opposite. It was clear that it was a permanent skin and thats why he was given the origins that he was given, explaining his white skin and frozen smile. The frozen smile is not only apparent in the comic books but also confirmed by all 3 Joker creators. Joker's appearance was based on Veidt's character who was described by Jerry Robinson as having a "frozen smile on his face". Veidt's character was a man who was summoned by gypsies to have a permanent smile on his face - Bob Kane: It's a story about a kid who had his face left into a ghastly smile by rival gypsies. That's where I got the Joker from (20/20 Doc.)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JrMAg7gZ5F.../kanesmile.JPG. Thats why Joker also had a permanent smile in 89 movie, because Kane was working on that movie as a creative consultant. Also, Nolan himself said that they invented their own look for Joker - Nolan: In visual terms, we really tried to just go our own way and work with Heath in developing what we thought was a good look for the character. (CBR Interview, June 2008)

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and “hate-filled” eyes the only times he smiles are when he’s committing or planning evil kind of like DKR/ASBR Joker as well.
But again, the laugh lines are still there, even when he doesnt smile. But thats covered already

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Joker laughing when he is about to die(stabbed himself or falling to his death)
That is not exclusive for the first issues. Again, you cant really cherry pick like that and take just the first 2 issues which just introduced the guy while he was consistent during an entire first decade, written and handled by the same creators. Joker did the above in his 70's comic reinvention, 89 movie and TAS

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Joker being a match for Batman physically(fight at party with henchman and fight at end with dogs in DK) and mentally
And again, that wasnt exclusive to few issues either, especially his intelligence which was portrayed in both movies and latter comic stories as well

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Joker got sent to jail but escape using explosives
Joker pretends to be police member
I never said there arent any similarities, but the similarities were added after the entire script was already written and they are only with the plot and the first 2 issues. The Killing Joke was passed to Heath, but Heath himself said it wasnt a heavy guide for him and that he just did his own thing. The TDK Joker character has barely anything to do with comic's Joker character, either version. That is not to take away anything from Nolan's Joker of course. As I always say, consistency or faithfulness in portrayal does not equal quality, those are 2 completely separate things. But to clear up those Joker myths and save myself some writing I created a blog in which I wrote Joker's detailed history throughout his existence - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...-of-joker.html. Hopefully some will learn something from it and see that a) the ultimate Joker was already portrayed decades ago, and b) while Nolan's Joker is a loose adaptation of the character, it doesnt stop it from being a phenomenal, mesmerizing and memorable villain. Im just not a supporter of trying to stretch facts and retrofit Joker's characteristics and history to ill fit TDK's Joker with him, especially when the filmmakers themselves said otherwise. Again, being different from the comics doesn;t mean bad at all, it just means different. Its a different take and the character was presented through a new prism

Edit: sorry for typos, my keyboard had a weak battery

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Last edited by GothamAlleys; 10-07-2010 at 12:40 AM.
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