Originally Posted by Doc Samson
This is another one of my issues. No doubt, for us comic fans, the easter eggs and things of that nature are cool. But to the average moviegoer, how can Marvel assume they even care or know?
Who knows how many people actually intend to see every single Marvel flick. Unless the general public sees them all, how are the SHIELD references even gonna make sense? All you guys on here arguing about how little the SHIELD stuff actually affected these movies, I once again ask, how effective was it then? If it's so minuscule that it hardly takes any screen time, and if we can all agree that most in the general populace could care less about any of it, then why even do it?
We, the hardcore fans, are going to see Avengers regardless, so in that sense, they're just preaching to the choir. Presumably, your doing all these tie-ins to appeal to the general public who might not be familiar, but your banking on the fact that number 1, it doesn't just fly over their head and number 2, it works & motivates them to see other movies they might not be interested in. Say what you will, we still don't know the outcome of Thor or Cap, they could potentially fail. And if that happens, by the time Avengers rolls around, there's a good chance that the only people who might be really excited about it wind up being the smallest minority who actually get it, and understand. Namely us...
This is a legitimate question? Because I think you answered it in your post.
It's not about effectiveness (for now). For now its for the fans and (to me) it doesn't take up much screentime.
Originally Posted by jmc
Jeez come on man, it was always going to be successful coz of film one, but that wasn't an excuse to force things in. And yes I do know people who did complain, they had no idea what the hell what some of the stuff was referring to, given how some of the characters were introduced it's easy to see why. Basic rule of film making - you don't pander to the fan base and assume everyone else knows what the hell you're talking about. Latest Harry Potter suffers from the exact same thing, without prior knowledge of both films and worse the books you could easily get lost in some parts. People make out like this is one big series of sequels, it's anything but, this is several different story lines that somehow have to be made to meet in the middle, but they've gotta work individually first and foremost, if they require knowledge of other movies or knowledge of what's coming up ahead or worse, the comic mythologies, in order to be understood then it's poor film making. Prior knowledge of a character or universe or book should never be a requirement before hand, the films need to work in their own right. If characters and events need to be there, then it's up to the writers to ensure they work with the story and not have the story moved to accommodate them. The problem in what Marvel are doing is that they're trying to make a concept work in a medium that it isn't suited for. It works for TV, hell that's more comparable a medium to comics than what films will ever be. Somewhere along the way things are gonna start getting compromised in trying to link things that aren't relevant to the story at hand. IM2 got a free pass in many respects due to film one's success, what if Thor or Cap have equally tacked on plot devices that distract and bog down the film? Given they don't have the luxury of a successful film one it's hard to see them being given the same leniency.
Okay, first, paragraphs please next time JMC.
Okay, the references weren't the problem with Iron Man 2. I feel as though even if the references wasn't there the script would still be weak. Let's face it, the screenwriting both films were awful and standard. It was the directing and acting that set the first film above.
I don't understand what you're talking about anyway with rule one. They did an awful job at introducing the chairacters. They mention Nick Fury by name, nor did they even say Black Widow (Like people are going to remember Romanov). Sam Jackson was always going to be in Iron Man 2, so that was always in the script.
I just think the whole idea that IM2 is an Avengers commercial is completely overexaggerated. I feel as though the references doesn't stop the flow of the film, but the middle part of the film did. That wasn't due to the Avengers commercial, but rather just terrible writing and deleted scenes that I feel had nothing to do with the Avengers or references. It was just filler to forward the film that was poorly handled from the beginning. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the film, but I recognize that this film isn't perfect.
I just don't think they're going to introduce characters and make heroes cameo in other's films. I think this is just panic right now. I don't think Thor or Captain America will have references to the Avengers. If anything it will have small references. Once again, the problems of Iron Man 2 had nothing to do with the Avengers.
They do this for the fans. Who cares if the audiences doesn't get it because it's not like there was a huge reference to the comics that wasn't explained or didn't move the plot forward. I feel as though once the Avengers comes out, good or bad, it will provide a great and entertaining explanation for the films. Plus, if I really had to gamble on it, I'd bet that once all the films are on DVD/Blu-Ray, it will be in a nice box set.
And about the last Harry Potter: They did the best they could with it imo: the book is a culmination of the first 6 books. I don't think you can go into the last part of any kind of anthology with the notion that you're fully gonna understand it without watch at least some of the other films. I fully believe that with the Avengers you probably wouldn't have to watch any of the other films to enjoy the film.