Originally Posted by bell110
That's the thing. Nobody is expecting "high art". People seem to be dealing in extremes when it comes to other people's opinion of the movie. The two arguements people use against other people's negative reactions are "What were you expecting, Citizen Kane?" or "The cartoon was dumb, why shouldn't this be?". How it is is that it's not a very good movie. I'm a Transformers fan and I see how this could have been a good movie. And I'm perplexed at other fans just going "good enough" or "it was dumb just like the cartoon". That's where I find the lack of imagination coming in.
Maybe you should substantiate your arguments first. You made this topic specifically accusing this film of sexism, racism, jingoism, and homophobia and give weak exaples of why you think this. People have replied and you've either dismissed their arguments and insulted them, or just ignored them. After five pages you've only engaged one person who has disagreed with you on only one point and that ended up turning into a conversation about the guys wife. The rest is just praise for people who agree with you.
It's difficult to engage in a discussion when the other side is only half participating, hearing what they want to and responding to points concerning their interest (in that case, his wife) and ignoring the rest.
What exactly that I've said needs substantiating that I haven't already explained? I've stated all my points and opinions in detail over and over again over the past several pages. If you'd like, feel free to go back and peruse them.
What you're looking for are concrete superficial examples of the things I listed (racism, sexism, etc...), but what you're obviously not understanding (as you've claimed I haven't explained well enough or substantiated my arguments), is that I've laid out my views and ideologies quite clearly in my initial post and in several others following that. Like I said, go back and take a look.
As for your "rebuttals", no I haven't answered to them as I have already addressed arguments of a similar nature (looking for face-value excuses for the reasons sexism, racism, jingoism and homophobia exist in these films). I believe you wrote for sexism, something along the lines of: "No guy is offended by looking at a hot girl."
Totally missing the point. Sorry to be blunt, but if that's your rebuttal, you're just not getting it.
Either you see and understand that these things exist in these films, or you just don't. It doesn't get simpler than that. If you don't understand the way these types of things exist in our society and pervade our media and culture by now (I'm presuming you're an adult), it's not possible to teach it through an internet message board. It's something you've either learned or you haven't.
What else needs explaining?