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Old 07-09-2011, 08:32 PM   #106
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Default Re: Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis - Part 1

Originally Posted by merced View Post
Didn't they do the first imaginary tale? The Death of Superman issue #149?

This is the real death of Supes tale. Dead means dead. Superman doesn't come back to life. It was done at a time when tre weren't events - it is contained in one issue. If this had been done today it would have spanned many issues.

It's usually listed as among the top Superman stories ever.
It's in my top 5 Superman stories ever. A while later Edmond Hamilton wrote the incredible "Last Days of Superman" where Superman is dying and makes his bucket list of deeds for humanity. All-Star Superman is a modern update of that story. It also featured Superman's credo: "Do good to others and every man can be a Superman." That is Superman's message to humanity-that although man cannot fly or move mountains, they can offer compassion and assistance to their fellow man as best they can. It is transcendence through altruism and it applies to the real world just as it applies in Superman's world.

Originally Posted by The Red Hood View Post
This is the heart of the issue. Superman has had some quality writers and artists, but they have not stuck around for reasons that are still unclear. Geoff Johns seemed very invested in Superman and staying on the title after Infinite Crisis, and things were looking great. The Superman mythos was beginning to evolve again, and there was a feeling that the Byrne continuity was going to be included to some degree, but largely erased.

Then Johns leaves to work on Secret Origin and other things, and never returns. Had he been committed (or perhaps, allowed to be committed?) to the title, he and Busiek could have put the Superman titles high in the sales charts each month.

But then both left; Busiek has commented vaguely over at the CBR forums that it was difficult to work for editorial at the time. Then New Krypton, which could have been phenomenal and really brought a lot of attention to Superman, ended up ousting Superman from BOTH of his titles and putting him in a limited series most folks wouldn't want to have to buy.

Then "Grounded" happened and here we are. The biggest mistake DC has made with Superman in the last ten to fifteen years has been passing on the Waid/Morrison proposal. The books would have been top sellers had they been allowed to go along with it.

When I heard about this reboot, I was hoping Mark Waid would be at the helm. Why does DC hate this guy so much? He should be spearheading this reboot, and using a retooled version of Birthright as the basis for a new era of Superman.
DC doesn't want Superman to succeed unless they are sure they have total control. Now they they are reinventing him, they have put the best they have (Grant Morrison) on it.

Originally Posted by merced View Post
Clearly Superman's relative value as a franchise has faded over the past years with the rise of Potter, Batman, Spiderman, Star Trek, Ironman and others. I dunno if it even ranks in the top ten commercial franchises anymore.

Didn't WB/DC argue in the trial that it was equal in value to the Conan franchise? I don't know if the court affirmed that valuation but that gives you an idea that WB and DC don't see a lot of value in it. Horn it was I think who said there were questions about the franchies's viability.

Of course WB/DC have an agenda to get the court to place the lowest value possible on the franchise so the payout to the heirs is minimized.

Still, there is no doubt the Superman franchise has lost a lot of it's value.
It has, but that is DC's fault. They aimed the franchise at the wrong people and took Superman too far from what he was meant to be. DBZ's popularity alone proves that insanely powerful characters can be popular, so the idea that Superman is too powerful to be popular is a total canard.

Originally Posted by merced View Post
To your point my guess is that even if DC/WB worked out a deal with the heirs they would take a two-track strategy to Superman.

They'd continue with a rebooted version who is not "goody two shoes" so to speak. An in-your-face angsty type of superhero. One they own completely and have the copyright to for 75 years to come.

They'd have a classic Superman line based on the character we know. They'd do specials and produce products but I think even if this is resolved DC/WB would use the classic version less and less and work to build a brand new character.

Agreement with heirs or not, DC/WB and the heirs lose the rights in less than 20 years. I don't see them trying to re-build or heavilly invest in the classic Superman.

It makes sense from a business point of view but, to be sure, not from a fan's point of view.
Agree 100%. These are business decisions and good ones. It sucks for the fans but hard to argue with the success of the Batman franchise since they made it their #1. The disastrous failure of the GL movie is what is now keeping Superman as #2.

Last edited by Kurosawa; 07-09-2011 at 09:14 PM.
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