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Old 08-17-2011, 10:23 AM   #55
El Payaso
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Default Re: So let's talk about Mask of the Phantasm...

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
I actually beg to differ with regards to bruce. He makes a decision as the age of 8 to dedicate his life to a cause. A concept of doubt towards committing to that is obviously going to creep in. How many people want to do something at 8 and actually manage it, let alone dedicate their lives to something.
I think no one would want to do something at 8 and actually manage it, let alone dedicate their lives to something.

That is PRECISELY why Batman is such a remarkable character. That's why no other orphan in the world makes such a decision. Because no one else can do what he does.

If we could find opther people with such a determination, then Batman would be just another guy in a bat suit.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
the reason it's a cliche is that it's probably the only thing that could have changed the course of bruce. Like he said, he never counted on being happy, what makes anyone happier than being in a relationship with someone they truly care about.
Yeah, that's how the average man would feel and do. Forget everything before it starts because of a girl. Batman should be above that. At least when he is not Batman yet.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
besides having nothing stop potentially stopping him makes him a 2 dimensional character.
Yeah. Determination is two dimensional.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
i don't get what you mean about the defining.
That loving a girl is not part of the Batman origin equation. Revenge, justice, hatred, frustration. But not a girl.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
I would say the batman mask itself is not what scares alfred, it's the eyes (hence why we get a close up of the eyes)m bruce's eyes are what have become scary and not the costume and his eyes are defined by his almaganated loss. he didn't have fear in his eyes before (i am a believer the costume itself is irrelevant and the eyes are the telling part as they are focussed on alot in motp). in fairness his costume is no less intimidating than supermans, or lets say...black canary.
First of all, if you think the bat-suit is irrelevant then maybe you'd like some average vigilante in a coat but with hate in his glance. The suit is the core of the Batman character. It is what Bruce built in order to scare criminals. Countles stories have been told about how Bruce tried to fight crime wiothout the suit and failed miserably.

And Batman suit is comparable to Black Canary's or Superman's? I mean, shiny colors vs black, mask vs no mask and a long etc.

Now, if you tell me that Bruce didn't have fear in his yees before a girl broke his heart, then why bother in including the Waynes' killing? Let's make this superhero that scares people because he has a broken heart. According to you, a girl walking out of someone is what really gives you what's needed to scare people.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
i don't see anything wrong with bruce wanting to not be batman, being batman isnt' a great thing as everyone who's ever worked with bruce has encountered.
Sure, let's make movies about Bruce Wayne and not Batman. Why having a character with cool suits and gadgets and a huge internal conflict when you can have a billionaire with love's sorrows?

What's wrong with it?

What's wrong is that if anything would stop Bruce of becoming Batman should be more than just a girl.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
because inhumanity which isn't rationalised in adult hood is just plain lunacy.
He rationalizes it into this Batman figure who will bring justice to this world.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
the only reason bruce becomes strong to the actions of others in dcau is because he was royally burned by andrea back in the day. Even in perchance to dream if he had his perfect life, andrea wouldn't have been part of it, that's how much she burnt him.
The birth of Batman is about grieving his parents. That's what burnt him, not some girl that left him.

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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
as females in superhero films go, she's certainly the best love interest to date and is a double beacor warning of what the hero could have had or could have become if he didn't walk that line so finely. andrea beaumont is everything good and everything bad in bruce at the same time.
Sorry, but Catwoman is the one. She's the one that mirrors him with her double life, mask and intyernal conflict. This Andrea - before she became the Phantasm which is when Bruce decided that she was hot enough to quit his mision before starting it - is not the troubled soul Catwoman is.

Catwoman is everything good and bad Bruce is as Batman.


Last edited by El Payaso; 08-17-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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