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Old 12-01-2011, 04:55 PM   #40
El Payaso
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Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
And peak in terms of skill. Sure Memento was a better movie, I can agree with that, but it was his second film. You don't peak skill wise in your 2nd film.
There are actually no rules for this. Orson Wells peaked at his first film, go figure.

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
These actually made sense, given the story was about a lost, confused, angry man who needed guidance.
A man needing guidance is probably given a lot of speeches. A movie about a man needing guidance doesn't have to give lots of speeches though. Rule number one of any good screenwriter: show, don't tell.

Just like a movie about fear doesn't have to have all characters saying "fear" at the slightest excuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
And the characters that do preach make sense as well. Alfred, Ducard, Falcone ... it didn't put a damper on things at all.
It certainly did. It's not that the speeches make sense or not, it is about making a movie, not a book. Again, show, don't tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
You can't go for subtle dialogue when the point of the film is building up a grand ideology for a mythic character, in such a short time frame while also having to "service" the typical blockbuster / comic book movie cliches (hello, 3rd act) ... that's why the first 2/3 of the movie are absolutely brillaint. If they got rid of the whole blockbuster perspective, the film could've been even more intensly personal, and as a result, better.
Again, when you make an ideology, big speeches. When you make a movie about an ideology, no.

The first act of the movie was great because of Bruce's motivations and actions, not because of Ra's's pompous metaphors of death as a dance.

Part of the 'blockbuster perspective' for me is having, for example, to put a joke everywhere. Or inform the audience that the movie is about 'fear' by repeating the word 'fear' to no end. Or to create scenes that makes absolute no sense, like little Bruce talking to his father on that monorail, just to give the public a lot of necessary information.

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
I do ... through context you know they have spent a life time knowing each other intimately.

Makes perfect sense to me.
Childhood friend =/= Love, you know.

I mean, not necessarily one leads to the other. And for the love of God, I cannot see where did that love come from. It looks wrong from every perspective (I love her because she was like my sister as a child; I love her because she slapped me twice; I love her because she lectured me on revenge and social injustice).

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
I saw plenty of Batman. Maybe I just have quicker eyes than you, or others?
Or you're a fan of the frame-by-frame button.

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
Not to mention there were numerous money shots of Batman crouching, or surverying the city. It was all there in spades. I can post screen caps if you'd like.
Those shots - two at most - never lasted more than 2-3 seconds. The famous poster of Batman spreading wings was specially sad because it was not even in the actual movie.

Posting caps would confirm what's necessary to do to get some Batman out of BB. In fact I've seen production and official Batman pictures much better than anything Batman i got from BB.

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
I didn't need the camera lingering on him during fight scenes. It dilutes the impact in what they were going for ...

Then it becomes action movie cliche, becomes as Ra's says "a dance" ... the violence loses it's threat.
I assure you, there are toins of movies with great fights, that don't abuse of the choppy editing and that doesn't make them cliché. Imagine, you get to see Batman fighting in a Batman movie!

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
Far from the best? Please. Even with it's flaws ...

At worst it's right there with the best of them ... Superman:TM, etc.
No, since Superman had better dialogue, better love interest and better action.

But again, I think it's better than many other superhero origin movies that are considered gold, like Thor and Spiderman 1. You could tell Nolan had something fresh to show about the genre. But TDK was the promise fulfilled.

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Originally Posted by SmellTheWeird View Post
BEGINS has corny-ness sprinkled here and there through three acts.

Iron Man turns into all out crap-fest verbally in act number 3.

It's so condensed and at the film's climax, it makes things way worse.
Not necessarily, as the tone of Iron Man allowed comedy - thanks to RDJ specially - that BB's tone did not. I'm sure the 'nice coat' joke could have worked in Iron Man whereas in BB was a lesson on how to ruin your best scene with only two words.

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