View Single Post
Old 12-18-2011, 11:49 PM   #59
Team Classic DC
theMan-Bat's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gotham City New York City
Posts: 3,322
Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
First off: Superman comics from the 60's were HUGE sellers, both in terms of market share and pure numbers. Look it up. Usually 6 books (Action, Superman, Adventure, Superboy, Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane) were in the top ten.
Superman was a bigger seller in the '50s, Batman was a bigger seller in the '60s.

I could go point-for-point, but I really have nothing to discuss with a Byrne-defender, Miller-worshipping, Waid and Morrision disparaging individual such as you. Nothing personal, but you clearly do not understand Superman at all, and that is not going to change, especially with the way you cherrypick your facts, and make assumptions that only support your viewpoints. See, to me, what is important is the characters and their creators, not my personal viewpoints. Jerry Siegel never intended for Superman to be a government lackey, never intended for Clark Kent to be the real person and Superman the disguise, never intended for the Kents to stay alive into Clarks adulthood, etc, etc. But we really have nothing left to discuss, our views on Superman are radically different and to be honest as soon as someone defends Miller's treatment of the character I pretty much consider their viewpoints on him to be null and void.

I respect your knowledge, but we will never agree on anything. Please add me to your ignore list.
It was you who choose to respond to my post. I don't put anyone on an ignore list, but you are free to add me to your ignore list if you like, since I clearly do not agree with you. Am I a John Byrne-defender? Yes, a Frank Miller-worshipper? No, I am a defender. I defend any writer or artist whose work I enjoy. I certainly do no share your hatred for either of them and their material. Again, I just prefer a different version of Superman than you do. And I quote and scan from the comic books themselves, rather than making unfounded claims. Unfounded claims is exactly what you have espoused, like your claim that John Byrne had Superman constantly running home to mommy for advice. Superman has never been a government stooge. Jerry Siegel did write Superman involved patriotically with the governments U.S. Navy, the police, etc. on numerous occasions. Jerry Siegel had him being Clark Kent since his childhood, Clark Kent is the name his kindly foster parents gave him in childhood, not just a disguise with glasses, etc. And in John Byrne's The Man of Steel, Clark Kent creates the new Clark Kent as a disguise to hide his super self with glasses, his hair slicked back and stoops a tad. While the Kent's staying alive past Superman #1 (1939) into Clark's adulthood is an alteration from Jerry Siegel's original intention, I never had a problem with John Byrne having them living on rather than dead, they are nice, heartwarming characters and can help keep Superman grounded. The Joker staying alive past Batman #1 (1940) was not Bill Finger's original intention, either, but I am certainly glad that Whitney Ellsworth had the Joker living on as well.

Half-man, half-bat.
Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe View Post
Manbat I adore you, those articles were amazing thanks!!!
Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Honesty, God bless you Man-Bat.
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Wow, brilliant post, man. Seriously, I couldn't possibly counter debate that. That post is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. You're obviously a true scholar of Batman lore
You've convinced me. Well played, sir. It's great to debate with someone who has the hard facts to back up what they say

Last edited by theMan-Bat; 12-19-2011 at 03:17 PM.
theMan-Bat is offline   Reply With Quote