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Old 12-20-2011, 05:31 PM   #88
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

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Originally Posted by theMan-Bat View Post
Waid's characterization is closer to the Silver Age version of the character and the Smallville TV show version.
Perhaps, but there was some Golden Ageyness in there.

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All entirely unneeded changes.
Yeah. The t-shirt and jeans thing I can kind of see the point behind if they want the moment where he gets his "official" costume to seem special. The rest is stupid, but it doesn't affect characterization in any way.

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I much prefer the classic Clark and Lois working relationship of them at the same newspaper and having a competitive rivalry relationship on assignments together, competing to get the story first. Rather than Lois barely even remembering who Clark Kent is. It's not necessary to scrap some of the basics of the iconic Superman mythology.
They're not scrapping it. Think about X-Men: First Class (the movie). Xavier and Magneto obviously weren't friends in the old X-Men movies, but First Class showed them as having been friends, and that particular aspect didn't contradict the other films. If anything, it fleshed out their characters and made their dynamic much more interesting. If it bugs you that much, check out some of Perez's Superman. The writing isn't as good as Morrison's stuff, but the traditional relationships are largely intact.

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Clark Kent was conceived as a clean cut, neat and tidy, well-mannered, upbeat guy. A slobbish grungy look is out of character, and strikes of jaded carelessness.
So what sort of look would you suggest for Clark that would like tidy without making him look jadedly careless or like a hipster douche.

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The public trusted the Golden Age Superman as a hero.



The way Morrison's Superman acts, the people would indeed mistrust him.
Since Morrison is basing his characterization on the Golden Age Superman, it makes the level of public trust he received in the Golden Age (which, to be fair, was far from universal) a little unusual.
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I have never said Byrne was the only one to take some influence from the Golden Age.
So would you acknowledge that Morrison and Waid (especially Morrison) have taken a good deal from it as well?


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Byrne did not make Luthor a generic CEO. Byrne's Luthor is a genius, a brilliant inventor. His ability to exist above the law made things very difficult for Superman, it created tension, created a struggle and it brought some reality to Superman, some relevance, showing that the system is flawed and doesn't always work. Superman was originally a champion of the oppressed versus corruption of the law at the highest levels, I've always seen the rich corrupt LexCorp Lex Luthor hiding behind a mask of respectability as a return to that concept. The original Luthor was a red haired dictator - a ruler who assumes sole and absolute power, he wore business suits. Luthor in The Man of Steel was red haired and wore business suits and was certainly a ruler assuming sole and absolute power. He had scientists working for him and Jerry Siegel's Golden Age Luthor had a scientific lab assistant working for him. Luthor originally met Superman as an adult and hated Superman because he's powers were a threat. The Man of Steel was a return to that concept. The overweight business suited con-man Luthor by Ed Hamilton and Wayne Boring in the 1950s was also an obvious influence.
I always did feel pretty lukewarm about the Lex in Smallville stuff, so I don't fault Byrne for retconning that. And yeah, Byrne's Luthor could be somewhat interesting in his own right, but it just wasn't the same as the classic and contemporary Luthors.

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Lois trusting Superman and loving Superman was a major plot point in the classic series.
And there's nothing going on in the DCnU that suggests that she's never going to trust and love him, but trust and love aren't immediate, especially not for somebody like Lois. Keep reading Action, and I guarantee you that a more-or-less classic Superman-Lois dynamic will develop. Should be interesting to read. I haven't read much of Perez's run, but things seem to have

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Whomever is to blame for that, at least we agree that it is a stupid change.
Hopefully somebody will have the good sense to reverse it soon, but I can look past it for now.
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It's taking a different direction with the backstory than previous comics have, but is there really any reason to think that either of those couldn't be true of the early careers of other Clarks and Supermans?



He's threatening the general public of Metropolis there. Jerry Siegel's Superman wasn't really angry. Generally he was upbeat, smiling, with a sly sense of humor, and toyed with criminals humorously.
Leading a corrupt mining executive into one of his own shoddy shafts, triggering a cave-in, and letting him pass-out in the water seems to go beyond mere toying. It sends a message. Something a long the lines of "Treat people right or expect a visit from me."


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I loath the new costumes. The classic iconic costume did not need to be changed to pander to anyone who laughs at Superman's red trunks as underwear on the outside. Superman looks incomplete without his red trunks. Theses drastic reboots of Superman and Wonder Woman in particular has made it clear that Dan DiDio and Jim Lee think that Superman and Wonder Woman are extremely outdated characters and are in need of such drastic reboots.
It's not as good as the classic suit, but it's not awful, and I think I can adjust to it if I must. As familiar with Superman's history as you are, you're aware that Superman's suit has gone through many changes, some good and some bad, some pretty much permanent and some graciously short-lived. So with this aesthetic shift and those to come, be sure to ask yourself "Does Superman have a mullet?" If the answer is "No," then count your many blessings.

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