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Old 12-21-2011, 11:27 PM   #96
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
Then he should have said he wished he got to tell those stories with an adult Superman, but instead he said he wished he had Superboy...probably because he realizes that mistakes are more forgivable when made by kids. He said he wished he had Superboy, so I think it's safe to assume he meant he wished he had Superboy not a young Superman.
Again, John Byrne said that he wanted to do stories of Superman "learning the ropes." A Superman who is "new to the job." Byrne said, "The choice to leave him out of the canon was mine. But, as noted many times, that choice was made with the assurance from the Powers That Were that I would be able to do a Superman who was still learning the ropes. Then, after the contracts were signed, they reneged on that promise."
"There's hardly a job out there that I would not tweak in some way if I could. As you may know, I dumped Superboy from the Superman mythos largely because I did not see him as a necessary character, and DC had agreed to allow me to show Superman "learning the ropes" after the reboot. Unfortunately, once the contracts were signed, the backed down on this and insisted we do MAN OF STEEL so that Superman would be "up to speed" by the time the new first issue came out. (Eventually I would realize that they wanted Superman rebooted without him actually being, you know, rebooted. Odd, indeed, since I had said from the start I was prefectly prepared to work from within continuity, and the reboot was their idea.) So, since I did not have a Superman who was still "figuring it out", I wish I had had Superboy to fill that role."

Irrelevant, and you clearly didn't read the scene. And as I said before, parents do that with their kids all the time.
Clark had no need for that deathbed advice that he must use his great powers for the good of mankind, since he'd already been doing that as Superboy.

I ain't the only one who sees sick Frank's hatred of women, gays and minorities.
I do not mindlessly conform to what some people assume about Frank Miller. I've already pointed out strong female characters in Frank Miller's material. Frank Miller contributed to a comic book called A.A.R.G.H.! (Artists Against Rampant Government Homophobia), in which Frank Miller did a story called "RoboHomophobe!" about a gay-bashing man transformed into a quadriplegic after a car accident, and the homophobe ends up being a homosexual himself. Martha Washington is a hero in Frank Miller's material who is both an African American and a woman.

Still, the point is that Siegel wanted Superboy there from the start and much of the tone of his early Superman stories is of a similar cocky, trickster nature like he wanted his Superboy to be.
Jerry Siegel was obviously not happy with DC's use of Superboy without his input or approval. We know that Jerry Siegel wanted Superboy to be a trickster character, we don't know what exactly Siegel would have written, since he didn't get to write those Superboy stories, Don Cameron did, without the input or approval of Jerry Siegel.

The one title did. Detective Comics never outsold Superman's solo title.
I didn't claim the Detective title outsold the Superman title in the '60s.

I am quite aware of when the Silver Age started, thank you very much. Basically it comes off to me that you are trying to underestimate the success and importance of the 60's Superman comics since much of what is associated with Superman came from that period.
As I've explained, your assumption is inaccurate. I believe that Superman was more successful in the '50s, which was also the Silver Age. Much of what is associated with Superman came from the '30s, '40s and '50s.

Obviously, the continuing success of the Superman comics line after the George Reeves show ended compared to the collapse of Batman sales after Batmania crashed shows that the team on Superman at the time was selling their books based more of the quality of the comics and not the fame of the TV show-and the Superman show was never as big as the Batman show was for it's first season anyway-it was syndicated, not on a network, etc. Not that it wasn't really good for it's time, because it was.
The Adventures of Superman show starring George Reeves continued to be aired in syndication throughout the '60s. And The New Adventures of Superman was aired on Saturday mornings from 1966 to 1969.

Half-man, half-bat.
Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe View Post
Manbat I adore you, those articles were amazing thanks!!!
Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Honesty, God bless you Man-Bat.
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Wow, brilliant post, man. Seriously, I couldn't possibly counter debate that. That post is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. You're obviously a true scholar of Batman lore
You've convinced me. Well played, sir. It's great to debate with someone who has the hard facts to back up what they say

Last edited by theMan-Bat; 12-21-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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