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Old 12-23-2011, 01:09 AM   #103
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat View Post
No, Geoff Johns' Krypton in Superman: Secret Origin is much closer to Donner's version than John Byrne's Krypton in The Man of Steel is.

John Byrne explained, "Oddly, the one thing in my version that most people seem to think was heavily inspired by the movie, my portrayal of Krypton, was not at all. I came from an entirely different direction, looking for that "look". I even went so far as to make "my" Krypton a desert work, so as not to be "confused" with the ice planet of the movie."
John Byrne, 1986:

Originally Posted by John Byrne
Byrne has previously stated that he wanted to "update" the look of Krypton, which he claimed remained "stuck" in a 1930s Buck Rogers-like art style for decades. "I liked the cold, antiseptic Krypton that I saw in the movie, but we couldn't do it for copyright reasons. So Dick and Jenette said, 'Redesign Krypton. That's the first thing that we're going to see in the new series. The very first page should tell us that everything is different."

I don't like Geoff Johns' movie style Krypton at all, either. I only like classic, Flash Gordon style Krypton.

John Byrne did not portray Superman as very naive. Being overly Boy Scout-like was a part of the classic Superman. Superman iconically was very patriotic. Superman had been law-abidingly involved with the Metropolis Police Department and with Sargent Casey in particular in the comics by Jerry Siegel since the early '40s and Superman was involved with Inspector Henderson in particular on the Superman radio show beginning in 1940 and in the '50s on the iconic Adventures of Superman television series. In the comics was awarded Metropolis's Outstanding Citizen Award in Superman #93 (1954) "Jimmy Olsen's Double." It is revealed that Superman was awarded honorary citizenship in all of the countries in the United Nations in Superman #146 (1961) "The Story of Superman's Life." It is revealed in Action Comics #285 (1962) "The World's Greatest Heroine!" that Superman was awarded a special golden certificate by the United Nations giving him with the legal authority to apprehend criminals in U.N. member nations. For years Superman has been involved legally with the police (Superman #20 (1943) "Lair of the Leopard", and many others), as well as the U.S. Army (Superman #23 (1943) "America's Secret Weapon", and many others), the U.S. Navy (Superman #15 (1942) "The Napkanese Saboteurs", and many others), the F.B.I (Superman #25 (1943) "The Man Superman Refused to Help", and others), the U.S. Treasury Department (Superman #102 (1956) "Superman For Sale"), the Secret Service (Action Comics #256 (1959) "Superman of the Future") and U.S. Presidents (Superman #107 (1964) "Superman's Mission for President Kennedy").
The Superman School for Officers' Training, the nations largest Army officers training center, constructed single-handedly by Superman, at super-speed, as a favor to the U.S. Army in Action Comics #210 (1943) "Make Way For Fate!" Superman has held the rank of General in the U.S. Army in Superman #133 (1959) "Superman Joins the Army!" Metropolis police and the general public can summon Superman into action by contacting Clark Kent, widely known as Superman's friend, usually at the Daily Planet (as seen in Superman #57 (1949) "The Son of Superman!" and many others), or Metropolis police can summon Superman with the aid of the Super-Signal, a searchlight that casts a circle of light against the sky containing a red stylized "S" insignia patterned after the one on Superman's costume (as seen in World's Finest Comics #76 (1955) "When Gotham City Challenged Superman", etc.) or by means of a large loudspeaker mounted atop the roof of Metropolis police headquarters (as seen in Superman #114 (1957) "Soundproof Superman", etc.), and it's revealed that every nation knows how to get in touch with Superman through the White House in Action Comics #306 (1963) "The Great Superman Impersonation". In Action Comics #207 (1955) "The Four Superman Medals!" it is revealed that each year, in Superman's honor, the Metropolis Police Department awards a Superman Medal "to the person who's heroism helped Superman the most" during the proceeding year. Superman performs a dazzling performance of super-powered feats at the Policeman's Benefit Show at Metropolis Stadium in Superman #133 (1959) "The Super-Luck of Badge 77". At the ceremonies marking Police Day at Metropolis Stadium, Superman presented a gigantic police badge to the Metropolis police force in Superman #160 (1963) "The Super-Cop of Metropolis". The key to the city has been awarded to Superman by the mayor of Metropolis (Action Comics #328 (1965) "Superman's Hands of Doom"). Metropolis celebrates Superman Day (as seen in Superman #157 (1962) "Superman's Day of Doom", Action Comics #328 (1965) "Superman's Hands of Doom" and Action Comics #594 (1987) "All that Glisters"). Two commemorative stamps have been issued in Superman's honor, one by the U.S. Government in Superman #91 (1954) "The Superman Stamp!" and the other by the city of Rangoon, Burma in Superman #153 (1962) "The Secret of the Superman Stamp!"
And he had been at odds with the authorities before that, and he was still hunted by police when Batman and Robin were officially deputized, but you cherrypick and ignore that fact. All DC heroes were law-abiding good guys by the early 40's, even the Spectre and Hawkman, who were the most wanton killers before that.

John Byrne said, "I wanted to drop Superboy because he was not part of the original mythos."
He wanted to show Superman being closer to the original Jerry Siegel version that was published in the Golden Age. Superboy was a recon to Superman's publication history and the Superboy DC eventually published was largely written by Don Cameron, without the input or approval of Jerry Siegel.
But he would have been, had Siegel gotten his way. But that is just as much DC's mistake as Byrne's-he did say he would have been willing to work within the previous continuity, and Alan Moore actually cautioned the upper brass at DC against throwing out the classic Superman for they risked alienating their most loyal readers. And they did lose a fair share of them, (although they kept suckers like me).

Well, the advice was rendered pointless by Superboy's heroic adventures, actually.
To me, the scene as originated by Bill Finger, who was a father, was more of an example of how parents stay parents until the very end-even on his deathbed, Jonathan Kent was being Clark's father.

Not if it's inaccurate praise at the expense of others. Such as the inaccurate praise that Batman had been campy throughout the Bronze Age comics and it was solely Frank Miller who brought Batman back to the dark roots, which isn't true. Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams and many others had been returning Batman back to the dark roots since the '70s.
Agree with you here, but I've never seen you criticize anything Miller has done.

Under Mort Weisigner's control.
He still did it, and his stories he wrote for Mort were his best stories ever, IMO.

I was admittedly vague, because I was pressed for time, and was misunderstood because I didn't explain what I meant in detail. I've repeatedly explained what I meant since, I've even apologized from not explaining in more detail in the first place.
Fair enough.

The Adventures of Superman show starring George Reeves was very successful, lasting for six seasons from 1952 to 1958, and was going to have a seventh season until the tragic death of George Reeves. That show definitely helped boost the popularity of Superman, Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen and the sales Superman comic books and merchandise. Jack Larson made Jimmy Olsen more popular and it was explained in the documentary Look, Up in the Sky! The Amazing Story of Superman (2006), that largely because of the popularity of Jack Larson's portrayal of Jimmy Olsen, DC decided to create a regular title featuring Jimmy as the leading character in 1954. Mort Weisinger and Whitney Ellsworth even wanted to do a Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen spin-off television show after George Reeves' death, and reuse stock footage of George Reeves from the Adventures of Superman, but Jack Larson refused the offer, disgusted by the idea.
Many Superman comics were even adaptions of episodes of the Adventures of Superman television series. DC's Editorial Director Whitney Ellsworth was also the producer of The Adventures of Superman television series and DC's Superman comics editor Mort Weisinger was also the story editor of The Adventures of Superman television series.
World's Finest Comics #68 (January, 1954) "The Menace From The Stars" is a loose adaption of the episode "Panic In The Sky" by Roy Hamilton, which aired on December 5th, 1953.
Superman #88 (March, 1954) "The Dog Who Loved Superman" by Jerry Coleman is an adaption of the episode "The Dog Who Knew Superman" by David Chantler, which aired on November 14th, 1953.
Superman #91 (August, 1954) "Great Caesar's Ghost" by Bill Woolfolk is an adaption of the episode "Great Caesar's Ghost" by Jackson Gillis, which aired on May 21st, 1955.
Action Comics #200 (January, 1955) "Test of a Warrior" is an adaption of the episode "Test of a Warrior" by Leroy H. Zehren, which aired on May 28th, 1955.
Superman #96 (March, 1955) "The Girl Who Didn't Believe In Superman" by Bill Finger is a loose adaption of the episode "Around The World With Superman" by Jackson Gillis, which aired on March 13th, 1954.
Never said it wasn't, but it was never on the Batman series first season level of popularity. I thought it was a great show given the effects limitations of the time. And it had much more lasting power than the Batman TV series, although it may have lasted longer had they not demolished the sets and NBC had picked it up.

The legacy of the Adventures of Superman TV series, aside from it's over very positive influence on the comics themselves, was the later on success of syndicated original shows, best represented by Star Trek TNG, Xena and Hercules. And also the syndicated Superboy series.

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