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Old 12-23-2011, 11:32 PM   #105
theMan-Bat
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore View Post
The episode didn't air yet, but was in production way before that and you know, Warner Bros. owns DC and Brennert and Miller might know each other. You cannot rule this out.

Mr Man-Bat, you'd be a lousy detective.
Heh, you underestimate me.

The Super Friends cartoons were made by Hanna-Barbara Productions, Inc., for the ABC television network. Hanna-Barbera had acquired the rights to adapted the Warner/DC characters for television. Frank Miller had nothing to do with Hanna-Barbara or ABC and certainly was not a Super Friends fan. Alan Brennert and Frank Miller definitely were not pals. Brennert hated Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. As reported in Comics Journal #111 (September, 1986), on June 27, 1986, Alan Brennert called into Harlan Ellison's Hour 25 radio talk show which was broadcast on Los Angeles KPFK (90.7 FM):



Quote:
Miller made Gordon much younger.
Gordon is not from Gotham City.
Miller didn't feature a friendship between Bruce Wayne and Gordon.
He originally wanted to make the child of Gordon a girl (Barbara Gordon, batgirl), but then someone pointed out that she would be way too young.
He made Alfred the old family retainer.
Batman did face the Joker for the first time with Robin, not alone.
Gordon was not an adulterer.
Catwoman was not a dominatrix and was called "The Cat".

And so on. Like he did with "The Spirit" he just didn't even bother.

Of course, Denny O'Neil didn't even bother to stop him ("best Batman editor ever", LOL) - a little bit of tweaking would have kept the old stuff truly in canon. (I guess, Mr ManBat, that would have been "censorship" according to you)
As I acknowledged, Frank Miller was making changes to Batman's history, yet, Miller's Batman: Year One left most previous Batman stories intact. Gordon's age wasn't specified in those early Finger and Kane stories. Frank Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns featured a friendship between Bruce Wayne and Gordon and Frank Miller's Batman: Year One featured a developing friendship between Bruce Wayne and Gordon as Bruce saved Gordon's baby. Frank Miller obviously changed the baby to James Junior. I already pointed out that Frank Miller made Alfred the person who raised Bruce. Batman isn't shown facing the Joker in Batman: Year One. The Joker was only referenced as somebody threatening to poison the water. That does not mean the early Finger and Kane Joker stories couldn't have also happened. Gordon's love life was not stated in the early Finger and Kane stories. Selina's origin was not stated in those early Finger and Kane stories. She first appeared without an origin and was only known as just the Cat originally, and she was never once called "Catwoman" in Batman: Year One.
As for The Spirit, Frank Miller explained: "The specific stories that made the core of this movie were three. One was 'Sand Saref' (originally published on January 8th, 1950 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #8 (1975) by Warren) the second one was 'Bring In Sand Saref' (originally published on January 15th, 1950 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #8 (1975) by Warren) which is basically a two-parter. And the other one was another story called 'Showdown' (also called "Klink vs. Octopus," originally published on August 10th, 1947 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #32 (1981) by Kitchen Sink Press), which was nothing but a bloody fight between the Spirit and the Octopus where it was demonstrated that both of them could withstand inhuman punishment, which led then to figuring out how to justify that. And that’s where the original part of the screenplay takes shape because the relationship between the Octopus and the Spirit is at the heart of the story. It allowed me to make the Spirit a man who is existentially confused about why he came back from the dead."
http://www.indielondon.co.uk/Film-Re...ller-interview
"I read a lot of Spirit comics when I was growing up, and he seemed to be able to take a cinder-block to the head better than anybody I ever heard of," Frank Miller explained. "And I just thought that the fact he took unusual punishment was a fact of the character that should be explored."
http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjourn...61b941cd53b6bd
Also, The Spirit film included homages to the classic Will Eisner Spirit stories "Plaster of Paris" (originally published on November 7th, 1948 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #11 (1975) by Warren), "Silken Floss, M.D." (originally published on March 8th, 1947 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #2 (1974) by Warren), "Lorelei Rox" (originally published on September 19th, 1948 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Art of Will Eisner (1982) by Kitchen Sink Press) and "Ten Minutes" (originally published on September 11th, 1949 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #13 (1976) by Warren). Also, homages to the "A River of Crime" splash-page (originally published on November 30th, 1947 in The Spirit newspaper strip, reprinted in The Spirit #24 (1980) by Kitchen Sink Press), and the cover of The Spirit #20 (1979) of the Spirit emerging from water by Will Eisner published by Kitchen Sink Press, and the cover of The Spirit #38 (1982) of the Spirit running on snowed rooftops by Will Eisner published by Kitchen Sink Press, and the cover of The Spirit #37 (1987) of the Spirit hit in the head by a sink by Will Eisner published by Kitchen Sink Press.
Frank Miller said, "I was just 13 years old when I came across Will Eisner's The Spirit, published by Jim Warren, and was blown away. I thought it was somebody new to comics, because it was so far ahead of anything else coming out. I felt it, religiously. There was one night when I picked up the latest issue of The Spirit, and I was so excited, I had to stop by a lamppost in Vermont where I lived and read it on the spot. That was the 'Sand Saref' story, which is now the basis of this movie."
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/157...rld-life.jhtml
Gabriel Macht said, "I bought the 'Best of' The Spirit collection (published by DC in 2005). When I got to set, Frank said, 'Listen, I don't want you to look at those. I'm not crazy about the coloring.' He wasn't a fan. He liked the black and white (by Warren and Kitchen Sink Press). So he gave me his best picks, and I read through all of those Spirit comics and put them up in my trailer. You couldn't see any wall. It was all comics."
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/new...the-spirit.php
Gabriel Macht said, "Frank felt that the movie was more in line with the black and white stuff that Eisner had published (thru Warren and Kitchen Sink Press), and we had a lot of conversations about the particulars of that. The first batch of Spirit material I read was about 200 pages worth of original black and white strips, not the colorized versions. And that was the Bible in the early stages: the mentality of Eisner, and the charm and wit and physical demeanor of the character as he created him."
http://www.mania.com/getting-into-sp...le_111693.html
And Will Eisner himself preferred The Spirit in black and white. Eisner said, “I prefer The Spirit in black and white — I prefer all of my work in black and white, to be honest with you. I believe the black line is a more pure contact with the reader. Color tends to obliterate or interfere with the flow of the story. I try very hard to make emotional contact with my reader early and to maintain an intense relationship as the story goes on. I find that anything that interferes with that is counterproductive.” (From Comic Book Artist, in an article by Jon B. Cooke)
http://comicfoundry.com/?p=820

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THE DEATH OF "SUPERMAN LIVES": WHAT HAPPENED?
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FRANK MILLER'S SIN CITY A DAME TO KILL FOR
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Last edited by theMan-Bat; 12-16-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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