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Old 04-04-2012, 04:37 AM   #117
Clark Kent > Superman
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill? - Part 1

Originally Posted by Prime View Post
Well he is not human and that isn't my opinion it's a fact. And he is better than us. He would never think that of himself of course, but he is. Evolution. He's Kryptonian, you know. And that's all I have to say, because if someone tries to tailor the character to their own perceptions and desires so much that they try to make him 100% human and claim he is on our evolution tree to be measured, than I really have no desire to converse about that.
I am in no way suggesting he is biologically human.

But I don't consider that human or kryptonian morality traits have anything to do with biology.

I believe they are a product of the society you live in, the people around you and that they are LEARNED throughout your life.

I don't believe morals to be innate.

So I can't see how Superman's feelings towards taking another like have anything to do with being kryptonian.

The only way I could see that happening in a story is if you show that he was fine with killing until he found out about krypton.

Originally Posted by The Morningstar View Post
I think HS was being figurative, not literal.

Superman isn't human. But he is the most HUMANE that a human can be.
Originally Posted by Krumm View Post
I think you missed her point entirely. It's a nurture over nature argument in this case. Regardless of his species, he was raised by humans and has learned the true meaning of humanity -- this is also a fact.
Thanks guys, you got what I was saying

Originally Posted by Greeneyes View Post
Obviously killing is not just a Human trait,but other alien species don't really come into this,and what I meant was that we react differently to Humans killing as appose to Superman who is the best he can be,and doesn't kill,lie and helps mankind to an extent.

Him being better,being a saviour or a Godlike figure is how some people on Earth see him,not how he sees himself.
I understand what your saying, but I don't think the majority of people would be against Superman killing a villain who was on a murderous rampage.

I think people would probably be pretty pissed at him for NOT killing in certain circumstances.

It's not 'the people' that expect more than killing from Superman. It's Superman who expects more from himself.

And that's not because he thinks 'I'm from Krypton, I should know better than these humans' IMO.

It's because he has learned throughout his life, from his parents, from his experiences in adulthood even... That he holds the value of life very very high. Any life. And he doesn't think he has the right to take one.

Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
Actually, not killing IS a Kryptonian trait. It's why once civilization started to form on Krypton, capital punishment was the first thing to go. And it's why Krypton was so advanced-because not only was Krypton scientifically advanced, it was also socially advanced.

"There was a right and a wrong in the Universe and that distinction was not very difficult to make."-Miracle Monday.

Superman's code against killing is one of the bedrocks on which Kryptonian philosophy is built. And it goes hand-in-hand with Superman's main belief: "Do good to others and every man can be a superman."-that is "the way" that Jor-El speaks of Superman showing humanity, and that is how humanity can, in Superman's view, transcend itself. Transcendence through altruism.

Superman's philosophy is a mixture of Kryptonian principles and the Kent's ethics. And it is the Kent's ethics, not just "midwestern farm ethics", like any farmer could have raised him so well. Ma and Pa Kent were to morality and ethics what Jor-El and Lara were to science.
I think that in interpretations where Krypton is an advanced culture morally like this, it certainly serves as a confirmation of his beliefs.

It's like looking at what Krypton was like is his way of seeing that what he wants for Earth IS possible.

(Though it doesn't look like this will be the case in MOS. I'd guess it'll be the opposite, and the demise of Krypton will be as a result of negative aspects of kryptonian society that mirror our own (I.e. War)).

But just because their society was against the death penalty, doesn't mean they were a completely peaceful race. They still had criminals and murderers.

And that's really all my point was. That 'killing' isn't something that no kryptonian is capable of doing. It's not innate in them when they are born not to kill.

So Superman having a no kill policy is not because he is alien.

It's a combination of his respect for life, and the 'boundaries' he must assign himself so as not to over step the line from 'helping' to 'ruling'.

Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?"
Superman: "To catch them if they fall."
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