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Old 05-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #382
The Guard
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Default Re: The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 2

I get it now. You're just never going to back down from this "not understanding Loki's staff" issue. That's fine man. To some of us it was as clear as day the effect it had on all of the men in the room. At one point Stark even rubs his forehead and winces as if something is doing something to his mind. Banner even picks up the Staff without even knowing it...... but none of that's overt enough for you. It's all forced. We get it.
How does one "not back down from not understanding something"?

No...I get the ever-so-subtle thing where the screen turns upside down.

Having a magic spear cause bickering is still pretty much forced drama to me.

Steve Rogers has never once shown to exhibit any violent tendencies.
Except for getting into verbal and physical fights and, you know, killing people.

And Stark's heroics are in the context of protecting himself from
corporate theft and intellectual property.
Arguable. Not in IRON MAN 2. In IRON MAN 2, his heroics have more to do with protecting the people at the Stark Expo. And in THE AVENGERS, he seemed to be there originally to stop Loki.

He saved people sure, but they were usually a by product of his either discovering his powers or in relation to his enemies.
That has more to do with the threats he faces than Stark himself. His intentions are still noble, as are most of his actions as Iron Man.

True sacrifice is to lay down your life for not only people whom you don't know but also for goals that have nothing to do with you. So, yes, Rogers was correct in his assessment of Stark. Otherwise the latter would have brushed it off if it meant nothing. So obviously there was some truth to it.
I know it gave Tony pause, and made him angry. But I don't neccessarily think that makes it true. Tony's never had a moment where he had to make that choice. Accusing someone of being something they've never had the chance to be seems kind of silly to me. Cap also accused Tony of pretending to be a hero, but Tony clearly wasn't pretending.

Leaders picking fights? To be technical, Stark 'started' it but that's besides the point. Have we forgotten how respectful they were towards each other in Stuttgart? Cap had no issue with Stark coming in to 'save the day' and they even addressed each other by their code names. Black Widow was more bemused than anything else when Iron man overrode the jet's controls.
I'm aware they were civil elsewhere in the film. But I was referring to this particular event.

I thought it couldn't have been clearer that Loki's staff affected the entire team in the laboratory. Joss used disorienting camera angles centered around the staff while everyone was arguing behind it. Coupled with Stark acting disoriented and Banner picking up the staff without realizing it, and it really was pretty obvious what was going on.
Except that, in the Cap/Stark argument, it kind of wasn't apparent until after the fact, as I'm pretty sure the spear's influence was shown after that, with the exception of the whole "My head hurts/I may be being mind controlled" thing. Stark and Cap aren't acting disoriented in the least at this point. They're acting like their normal selves, and if the scene is "The staff makes Captain America and Stark and The Avengers argue?" That's just kind of weak to me conflict to me.

"Perception is the enemy of reason."


Last edited by The Guard; 05-17-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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