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Old 09-04-2012, 07:30 AM   #155
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 434
Default Re: Avengers Assembled: News and Speculation - - - Part 69

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17 View Post
If you're talking subjectively, fine. You can like whatever the hell you want.

But to make a declaritive statement that Avengers is EASILY his weakest, there needs to be some kind of objective reasoning behind that for the statement to have any credibility at all.
We're talking about artistic works in which there can be no objective judge of quality. Given that we all understand that, I'd have thought that I could make comments and have everyone appreciate that I don't speak with absolute authority on the matter given that none exists. I do have reasoning behind making my decision which I'm happy to discuss and debate, that's the whole point of these boards. Not many posters have offered much objective reasoning for the Avengers superiority and nobody appears outraged.

The Buffy film is still Whedon's artistic work, whether or not he wants to disown it. As is the case with the wretched Alien Resurrection. It's understandable that Whedon wouldn't want to take the blame for those massive failures, but he got sole writing credits for both the Buffy film and AR, which makes him responsible for those scripts. And then there's Dollhouse. Even allowing for the subjective nature of judgments about quality, claiming that it was better than The Avengers is laughable on its face.

Would you say that The Avengers is weaker than Alien Ressurection or Dollhouse? Or are you pulling the "Whedon didn't like it/the network interfered so it isn't his work" card for those ones, too?
From what I can gather, Whedon disowned the Buffy film because it didn't accurately represent his ideas, hence the show. He refused to associate with the film before any critical reception was received. As such, I don't associate that film with Whedon more than I associate the Avengers with Penn. I have no idea how Alien Resurrection went down but the situation seems similar. If I must clarify then I'll amend the statement to say that I consider Avengers weaker than his television work, Serenity and his Marvel comics.

Dollhouse is not perfect, nothing is, but I think its strengths outweigh its flaws. Season 1's 'Man on the Street', season 2's 'Vows' or the unaired pilot 'Echo' are good examples of the strengths of that show. All written by Whedon. They tackle some interesting themes, provide good characterisation and the subtext is tackled with perhaps a greater degree of nuance, or is less muddled than Avengers. I don't find those statement particularly absurd.

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