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Old 09-27-2012, 09:23 AM   #69
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Posts: 470
Default Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
I just wanted to address this, as the rest of your post was your usual shipping. I know I can state my opinion, and I dont need your permission. Personally, I think Rachel understood Bruce in ways Selina didn't, and Selina had more surface things in common with Bruce then Selina did. However, this dosent mean Selina was more suitable than Rachel on paper, IMO. Selina was a good fit for Bruce given the circumstances.
It's not shipping. It's facts. And as I said, you can state your opinion all you want, that's your right. I'm saying that's not what was shown on screen. Rachel and Bruce had chemistry in BB. Then in TDK, they had none at all. Throughout that entire movie, Rachel came across as just being annoyed by Bruce.

She was the usual, damsel in distress character. Bottom line is that Selina is the most iconic of all of Bruce's love interests and by far the most famous amongst the masses. Rachel is a character that Goyer made up out of thin air when the studio told him and Nolan to add a token love interest.

You don't even have to take my word for it. Read the production notes. Selina is the yin to his yang. They're meant to come across as kindred spirits. And as I said before, how often does someone who dresses up in black and sneaks out at night meet someone else who does the exact same thing.

Bruce and Rachel had a connection, sure, but it was the type of connection where one person will never fully able to understand the other's mental scars. Not to mention that Bruce and Rachel seemed to have no kinetic energy whatsoever, as opposed to Bruce and Selina, who, from their very first scene together, seem to already have the energy about them (which also has to do with the choice of actors). The "Oops" moment always gets applause from whatever audience I'm watching the film with.

This quote from another poster says it well - Yeah I think the saga ending with Bruce and Rachel together (had she survived) would have represented regression rather than progression. In the end Rachel did not represent love, she represented a fixation Bruce had with his past, with a lost childhood innocence that was simply never going to come back no matter how much he wanted it to. Or, as you said, he was infatuated with the ideas & ideals Rachel represented rather than loving her for the person she was. I believe Dent loved Rachel for who she was, and I think it was pretty obvious in the end that Rachel loved Dent and not Bruce because in her own heart Rachel had already moved on while Bruce hadn't.

Bruce being with Selina at the end better demonstrates that he's finally moved on and is in a better place mentally and emotionally than he had been in years and ever would have been if he'd ended up with Rachel.

Here's another post from someone else on this page. Great points brought up here - As much as I would like to say Rachel, being that he grew up with her and seen her as a way to be a normal person, but then to be left devastated after her death in TDKR. The ideal relationship looks good on paper, but did not work for me on screen in BB and TKR. In BB, we never really know exactly why Bruce is in love with Rachel. We know that she was part of his childhood and also she convinces him that killing won't solve his problems. But there's no intimacy in the film between the two.

In TKR, we have a new actress playing the role, in which she did well. But again, no real intimacy. We don't see what Bruce sees in her, my thoughts would be she, other than Alfred, is only person that knows him from childhood, when his life was normal, innocent and not vengeful. But as for a deep connection between her and Bruce, nothing. On top of that, the audience really don't care for her. What really illustrates this is the fact that in the film, she gets blown away right in front of us--which comes as a complete shock and defies superhero films because the damsel usually doesn't die--but her death soon becomes an afterthought as we are absorbed into what Joker does next and the emergence of Two Face. We really don't know--and forget--how much her death affected Bruce until TDKR.

So Selina does have the deepest connection with Bruce, AND IT SHOWS ON SCREEN. The charity ball scene was key. They're fighting thugs together. They are both looking for an escape, a clean slate. They save each other"s life. The passionate kiss at the end. Another funny thing is that those around them seen something in them two. Alfred makes a remark after finding out Selina stole the pearl necklace and sees that Bruce is more amazed than upset (which is funny how posters here think that Alfred does not know of their relationship). Fox says "Like your girlfriend" . The cafe scene at the end was a nice visual touch also, especially with Selena wearing the pearls. Throughout the movie, Bruce sees something in her, and believes in her to make the right decisions.

I could write more, but I'll stop there...just my 2 cents

Last edited by kthevs; 09-27-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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