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Old 11-09-2012, 11:32 AM   #109
The Joker
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Default Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
I'm hoping this does happen for you Joker, cause I respect your opinion and I know we'll probably never see 100% eye to eye on the film but I'm hoping that you and others who were highly disappointed will at least be able to make your peace with it and appreciate the good that's there rather than getting too tripped up on the negatives.
Thanks for the nice words. You're a rare breed on here. A fan who can defend the movie, recognize an opposing opinion, and not just label it as "fanboy whining" or something equally juvenile.

There does seem to be a misconception that I hate or even dislike this movie. I don't. Far from it. I enjoyed it a lot. I think it was a good movie. Very much looking forward to getting it on blu-ray. However I do think it's quite flawed, and does not live up to the standards Nolan set in the previous two movies. I loved both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight on a first viewing, and subsequent viewings just made me love them even more.

There's every chance another viewing of it may quell my disappointment and make me appreciate it more. As I said it's happened to me before with other movies. I don't see it getting worse in my eyes. That rarely happens for me.

But there is plenty for me to enjoy in the movie even if my opinion doesn't change. I love everything with Selina Kyle. She's one of my top 5 characters in the trilogy and what I think is Catwoman finally done well on screen in terms of being like the comic book counterpart. I love Bane breaking Batman. Pure Knightfall. I love the fall out between Bruce and Alfred over Rachel. I love Batman's big comeback, the epic Cop chase. I love how Harvey Dent is so revered by Gotham (my only disappointment is not seeing the horrified reactions to him being exposed as a fraud). I love Gordon carrying a massive guilt over Dent. I love the No Man's Land elements to Bane's siege. I love Bane's Blackgate speech. I love Bruce's scenes in the pit. I love the final scene with Gordon and Selina before Batman takes the bomb away. I love that he got a happy ending with Selina. If ever Bruce was going to end up with someone I think it would be Selina. I've always been pro Selina as Bruce's most defining love interest. I was so glad Nolan went that route.

There's enough in there for me to love that I can enjoy this movie and feel it is a good movie. Maybe I'll like it more when I see it again. Maybe I won't. I hope I do.

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
Thank you. I'm surprised though that someone actually watched the one-hour long video. lol
It wasn't a visual aided video, so it helps I could leave it playing in the background listening to it while doing other things

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I share the exact opposite opinion. The first time I saw TDKR in theatres, I thought it was a good movie on its own even though I still held the opinion that it wasn't a good Batman movie or a good sequel. I went to see it a second time hoping my opinion would change but I turned out disliking it even more the second time.

The thing about TDKR is that it addresses a lot of great ideas and themes in each individual scene but the whole movie falls apart when you put those scenes together and when you take them in the context of the film. An easy example would be the scene where Batman first returns and the senior cop in the police car tells the rookie cop "We're in for a show tonight, kid." At first, a fan's reaction to that scene would be something among the lines of "OMG This is a great scene! They took that great scene from Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns and adapted it in this movie! Good job Nolan!" But when you sit down and think about it, that scene makes no sense in the context of the film. In TDK Returns, everyone knew Batman served as Gotham's hero for years so when that senior cop sees his return, it makes sense that he would slow down the car, get relieved, and tells his rookie partner he is in for a show. In TDK Rises, every cop other than Gordon thinks Batman is a murderer and not a hero so it makes no sense at all for that cop to have the same reaction as the cop in TDK Returns thus that specific moment of the scene falls apart. This is just a small easy example. There are many more examples throughout the film including more major ones.
I'd never even considered that. I was too caught up in the idea that it was a cool nod to The Dark Knight Returns. But as others have said it could have been a subtle way of saying that not all the Cops think Batman murdered Dent. But then again it could just be Nolan sacrificing logic for a comic book nod.

I'd be curious to hear some of your other little examples like these.

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One good thing I have to say about TDKR is that it is the closest we got to seeing Batman's detective and strategy skills from the comics in a movie. It is also the closest we got to seeing a Goddamn Batman in live-action and what I mean by that is that we almost got a Batman that can do almost anything possible simply because "He's the Goddamn Batman". Too bad that the "Goddamn" aspects of Batman in this movie were very poorly executed (at least in my opinion).
Personally I think his detective skills were shown best in TDK with;

- Using the marked bills to track the mob's money in the banks
- Getting the fingerprint off the shattered bullet
- Constructing the sonar machine to track down the Joker
- Cross referencing the names in the database with addresses in the vicinity of Loeb's funeral to get Melvin White's address

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Also, there is another problem that I have with the movie from an adaptation point of view that wasn't brought up in the videos I linked (or at least I don't remember them being brought up). You do not try to make the Batman character in your movie like the retired Batman in The Dark Knight Returns if your movie is a sequel to 2 movies that were all about Batman in his early career as a crimefighter still trying to fully figure out how to operate. It just doesn't make much sense to me.
Yes, I do agree that seems very off for any adaption of Batman. If there had been a larger time gap between Begins and TDK then it might not seem so daunting. But then that wouldn't have worked for the story of TDK, where Batman was still a rookie, unprepared for criminals like the Joker, not prepared for the big can of worms his presence in Gotham would open with the copycats, the Joker, the escalation etc.

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It's a really darn shame the movie turned out the way it turned out IMO. It had SO much potential with the concepts they used (Bane, Knightfall elements, No Man's Land elements, etc.).
There was a lot of wasted potential I agree, though I don't feel there was quite as much of it as you do which is a shame. Maybe if you view it again your opinion may change for the better. Has that ever happened to you before with a movie?

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Originally Posted by Alex Logan View Post
I don't see what you're seeing here. Where are you getting this idea from? The only cop that thought Batman was a murderer is Foley. I never got that feeling from anyone but him, the rest just seemed to be following orders.
Well considering there was only three Cop characters in the movie; Gordon, Blake, and Foley, there really is nobody else to get any impression from regarding Batman and his guilt or lack thereof.

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