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Old 11-17-2012, 11:48 AM   #46
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,429
Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
I could see that.
and not only that, if they have a moment where Odin says that quote you mentioned, "what better way for a god than to die with his sons by his side?"

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
but only to Loki, since Thor is not by his side in this scenario, he's defending Midgard, that would certainly tie up the old "daddy issues" arc neatly for Loki before Odin does die, and be very very touching, and probably there are going to be at least some of the Loki fans in tears over it. possibly me included. Would also be interesting as an indicator that Odin knows he will die, as in the stuff you said about them seeing themselves die or not die in a dream the night before.

Not that they are going to quote the comics all over the place, so probably not, and maybe Thor will make it back in time, who knows. but I'm just saying, if Odin does die, then they likely will find a way to have Loki and Odin forgive each other in a moment like this. To tie up that loose end. And that could be where some of the stuff Tom mentioned about "the truth of his broken heart" being "plain for all to see" comes in.

Okay. I thought you were alluding to a different moral sacrifice.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I wonder if Thor will be asked to make some moral sacrifice so as to free Jane from the malevolent spirit.
Maybe, but take a look at this quote and replace America and country with Asgard, and you will understand more where I am coming from, as to this Moral Sacrifice theme...

The vestiges of the conception of patriotism are still seen in America today, as exemplified by the first and third examples given above: “Patriotism means supporting your country, right or wrong,” and, “Being a patriot means serving your country.” The implication of these conceptions is, more or less explicitly, that patriotism is equivalent with sacrifice, either moral or physical.

The physical sacrifice is easy enough to detect. If “good” means serving others, then serving one’s own self-interests is necessarily the “bad.” Using this understanding, “patriotism” means rejecting oneself for the good of one’s country or, as is more commonly the argument, the “common good.”

The moral sacrifice means one must place the “good” and the “bad” on the same moral plane, thus devaluing the “good” and giving undue legitimacy to the “bad.” Man is asked to defend and support his country even when one’s government is acting immorally, i.e. violating individual rights. No reason is given for why man should support his country under such circumstances beyond that it is his country. This is not patriotism. This is nationalism.

Aw, what's the fun in that? We don't guarantee any of our ideas or assumptions to be right; why should we require it of the stuntman?
I know I'm being a party pooper. But it's been bugging me.

Actually, having slept on it, I like it a little less. A space ship crashing into the ground ought to have more momentum and require a longer stretch to come to rest than they have room at that campus (unless most of the trench is handled digitally).
I agree, not crazy about it. Marvel Freshman I think said something about maybe Svartalfheim was bleeding into Midgard.... so a dimentional rift maybe, that transforms Midgard? Maybe... it would be a new way to do an invasion. Or it could be the filming is on different realms, not just Earth.

Actually, I would think that they would regard it as in their global security interest to have this technology, rather than rely on other races to provide the access (or take it away) whenever they deign to do so. Studying it also would enable the development of better defenses against future incursions into Earth's airspace, as it were.
Maybe, not out of the question, I just dont find it very wise of them. Better to keep those doors closed, never know when a highly PO demi-god might shoot out of it and mayhem ensues...

I don't know if this next part requires a spoiler button, but to be on the safe side, I'll add it.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Seeing more of the pictures that people are posting in the main spoilers thread, people have noted that Thor has two scratches on his forehead. We collectively have supposed that has to have come from a *really* big blow, likely from Kurse. That would put this footage late in the film, meaning it is likely on Svartalfheim. (We don't think everyone would travel all the way to Midgard for the showdown, do we?)

And some of the footage we think more clearly is on earth. I mean, why would a whole bunch of dark elves get dressed up in battle armor and climb one-by-one over a pile of rocks in their own realm? So it's kind of confusing.

So I wonder if certain locations in Svartalfheim are not just evocative of places in Midgard, but exactly the same. That would mean some of the scenes they are shooting at Greenwich University are on Svartalfheim, and some are on Midgard.
See above what I said again about Marvel Freshman's idea. I think this is plausible and may explain some of your questions here.

Re: the palace...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
That's a reasonable point, but why would Hela attack Karmilla's palace? Wouldn't she want to hit the Asgardians?

You are right in that that spoiler came out about the same time as they were shooting the Bourne Woods footage. They don't necessarily shoot scenes in close sequence to one another, so it might be that this crash is at some other part of the movie.
If Nornheim is part of Asgard then they would be attacking the Asgardians.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Perhaps they are hitting the weaker outskirts first and making their way into the heart of Asgard. Which makes more sense to me than throwing a ship at Odin's giant golden palace and hoping that works.

Or it could be a dispute with the Vanir, I dont know I haven't worked all this out yet obviously. Initially I thought that fight could be an establishing shot to show how things are crazy in the 9 realms now, with the Vanir coming in and fighting but now I am thinking this may be later in the film when Hela comes in to attack with her army and tries to get control of the outskirts of Asgard first and surround the Asgardians. I think that palace may not be Odin's palace though, because it is so massive and that quote made me think of some guard standing outside the palace doors, seeing a ship approaching and running away, and I just think that might look a little silly on screen in relation to Odin's palace, I guess. I could see it with a smaller less impressive palace though. Could be the crash is at another point in the movie too, true.

I'll have to get back to you later on the other stuff. I'm not sure I agree on everything you have down there but I'd like to think on it some more.

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