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Old 11-17-2012, 06:01 PM   #55
American Maid
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Okay, so here is my take on everything at the moment, and this could change certainly as stuff comes out, and I warn you AM, you may not entirely like the Jane part of this especially, but I think it's all plausible....
It all hangs together pretty solidly overall (I point out a few holes), and it's actually not a bad treatment of Jane, either. I have one primary point of disappointment, as you'll see/could guess, but overall not bad.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Quotes, of course, are all from elizah.
As you said (and I was thinking about this just as you were typing the other reply you had, how funny! lol) maybe the portal thing and the Elves being interested in Earth's growing tech is why they are there and trying to get Jane, so I'm going with that idea.
Well, it seems like all too neat and tidy of a coincidence for the elves to be going for Jane as Thor's love interest, since she probably didn't list that among her recognitions on her CV or anything Especially since they aren't exactly an item at this point.

Jane is on Earth doing research into portals with Erik and maybe Darcy is there too.
Well, Kat Dennings thanked Thor: The Dark World for letting her be in it (in a tweet). So she's in it, and in Jane's lab is the most logical place for her to be.

Heimdall has his work cut out for him keeping an eye on the realms right now, but he promised Thor to keep an eye on Jane and so he tries to do that some too. He sees something is going on, and Jane may be in danger from the Dark Elves. Thor finds out and gets Odin to send him down again to help (maybe Odin doesnt want them to have that power either, so that's a reason for Odin to do that). Thor goes down and retrieves Jane at least bringing her back to Asgard for safety, and maybe Erik and Darcy tag along as well for some reason.
So to make sure I understand, Thor brings back the doppelganger Jane, as well as (possibly) Erik and Darcy.

Thor and the Asgardians have a hard time, A LOT of losses. they have to pull back. Odin uses the Odinforce to *cough McGuffin cough* put up some kind of forcefield up or keep them back from invading the heart of Asgard. But this temporary and takes A LOT out of him. THis is the reason why he can do very little else and is not really being mentioned in spoilers. And the reason he cant travel to Valhallah. He tells Thor to go make nice with his brother who knows how to get to Valhallah with his magic because there is no way for him to do that right now.
Loki's magic will bypass Odin's force field? Possible weakness: might the bad guys' magic do the same?

On the way back [from Valhalla] (and this is the part that you won't like AM). it is revealed that one of the 3 humans, is not a human at all but a Dark Elf. I am going with Jane as that would be the biggest knife twist.
Certainly. It wouldn't be Darcy, because she really doesn't know all that much about portals. Gap: you'll need to explain why there isn't an Erik doppelganger (unless they both are!!) (or unless Darcy and Erik aren't there)

(and this is the part that you won't like AM).
It's not that I never want Jane to be imperiled. It's that I want her to be relevant to the story in a way that is not a gigantic boring cliche, and that whatever befalls her (such as being written out of the story), she doesn't get used as an object and is instead treated like an actual character. For example, in the books, she gets plopped into this marriage with this basically random guy (Keith Kinkaid). Later, her little family is just written out because that's what the writers need, not that that's consistent with her character. She drops them. Divorces him, loses custody of their son. Not really consistent with her as a character and rather undignified.

The strength of what you have here is that she is contributing to the story in a way that is something other than quaking and crying, "Oh, help me! Help me, Thor!" (Where is that puking emoticon? Oh, here we are: ) She's still doing her research. And what puts her in the most danger is not the fact that Thor kissed her hand, but rather what is in her head. (And Thor not seeing her in the future will not keep her any safer.)

Here's the quote from Feige to which I referred a while back, with the know/like/love questions: "Well it’s sort of the crux of the whole sequel and it’s what Hemsworth is most excited about diving into, and it’s what is the heart of story; it’s Thor and Jane, to continue that dynamic. Really they were only together for three days, and do they love each other? Do they like each other? Do they know each other? We’re acknowledging that that love story in the first movie was sort of a quick crush, essentially, over the course of three quick days in the middle of the desert."

On this area, your outline is a mixed bag. Thor spends time with doppelganger Jane, and thinks he knows her better, but actually it turns out he doesn't know real Jane at all. I think the bafflement that would come out of that head-fake is a strength of what you have. A frustrating aspect is that the characters make almost no actual progress in this area. So that's a down side.

The weakness of Jane's arc from my point of view is that she still winds up as the damsel-in-distress. That's a bit annoying.

You are right in that it would fit with the Lawden spoiler about being possessed.

Poor Thor apparently is never going to not fall for that [an illusion].

BTW, here is a random bit of trivia that works well with your plot line: "In Norse mythology, a vardøger is a ghostly double who precedes a living person and is seen performing his actions in advance." (Wikipedia entry on doppelgaenger)

Thor . . .asks Loki to send him to Midgard, after some argument about where he is needed more (would be good if this was more from Sif and the Warriors 3 than Loki)... after a bit Loki agrees to do this for his brother, as a sort of peace offering, or to get him out of the way whichever you prefer.
Now, here is a subtle bit that probably won't immediately be obvious, but is important for the Thor-Loki relationship. Thor is obviously fooled by the illusion. (It's probably tidier if you have all 3 humans be doppelgangers. Otherwise, Darcy and Erik know Jane very well and risk exposing the ruse before the plot is ready for it to be exposed or else they'll have to carry the idiot ball). BUT: Loki is a master of illusions and likely was *never* fooled. And he never told his brother. He let Thor be led along by all this. His family, one of the few people who cares for him. And after all this effort Thor has gone through to make nice, to try to help him back to reconciliation, to find the good in him, this is how he repays him. Wow.

. . . Thor and Malekith go at it, at some point Malekith gets desperate and is losing. Surtur steps in and makes one of his warriors into Kurse to battle Thor. Surtur then appears at Odin's palace and at some point and starts fighting Odin specifically.
I have the impression that in the book, Algrim is turned to Kurse, and there's an interim act before Kurse and Thor face each other. This is a different pacing, but it might work fine. Lots of action you have going on here!

Oh, it occurs to me that the photo we saw where Malekith is holding his arms up with the bright light might be where he drops the trap door and sends Thor and Algrim down to the lava.

Frigga is still alive possibly in this scenario and is battling Hela.
You'll have to give her a lot of powers, of course. Hela's supposed to be able to hold her own against Thor, at least for a little while, so that's a big power-up for Frigga. So this could be tricky to pull off. In myth she has the cloak of falcon feathers, so she can fly. But I don't know what other powers she has off the top of my head.

Jane opens a portal for Thor to get back to Asgard to help there.
That's a nice touch! Thanks.

in the end, the Asgardians have more respect for Loki for being there when he was needed most, and lost respect for Thor for going to Midgard, and Thor blames himself for Odin's death as well. So in the end we wind up with Thor going back to Earth, very upset and in turmoil, maybe with Jane, maybe not, and we have potentially Loki on the throne of Asgard for future films.
Assuming Loki has the votes (I think you should convene an Althing) Would Thor speak to the Althing about how Loki allowed him to be fooled by dark elves? He would have to undermine his brother, but it's relevant to the Asgardians' votes. Which is the lesser wrong?

I am having trouble fitting in Frigga's death here, as you may have guessed, I thought it might be cool to have Frigga fighting Hela at some point, either right after Odin's death or earlier in the film to give Loki added reason to go along with Thor, but it's tricking fitting it all in. and of course there is the worry if she winds up on Valhalla or Hel and them seeing her again, etc
Well, Frigga would have to be powered up considerably from her book self, and even up from where she was in Thor1 (if she could take on Hela, surely she could have dispatched both Frost Giants, and not just one). So that's problematic.

If you don't have her countering Hela, then you have Hela running around unopposed.

It's a pretty prominent role for Hela, more than we've been led to believe. So that's switching among a lot of villains.

What about this alternative: save Surtur for Thor3, have Odin confront Hela. This doesn't manuever Loki onto the throne, but may make various aspects more manageable. Of course, he could probably dispatch her pretty quickly, even if he is weak from having done this force field thing.

Alternately, Jane and co stay behind during Thor and Loki's trek to Valhallah and Dark Elf Jane kills Frigga when Frigga catches onto what she is. Thor gets back with Loki etc with reinforcements, and finds Frigga dead or dying, and they get the elf and they find out what Malekith is up to and goes to defend Midgard then (and also get further revenge on Malekith for Frigga), and again Loki helps him get back to Midgard. SO there's another scenario...
Yeah, I had thought about the doppelganger Jane killing Frigga. Awk-ward. I think that may put Thor up against Algrim/Kurse at the wrong time, though.

Overall, the biggest hole I think is Frigga being so powerful.

Overall very creative!!

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