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Old 11-17-2012, 07:36 PM   #56
elizah72
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

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Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
It all hangs together pretty solidly overall (I point out a few holes), and it's actually not a bad treatment of Jane, either. I have one primary point of disappointment, as you'll see/could guess, but overall not bad.
Thanks!

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So to make sure I understand, Thor brings back the doppelganger Jane, as well as (possibly) Erik and Darcy.
Yes.

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Loki's magic will bypass Odin's force field? Possible weakness: might the bad guys' magic do the same?
I think there will be holes to question, for instance how does Thor come out of the sky and happen to land right on top of the jet that's holding Loki in Avengers? Hm? *shrugs*

maybe Odin allows Loki to do this, but keeps the other magic at bay. If Odin isnt doing something during all of this, then that's a pretty big hole in the plot.


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Gap: you'll need to explain why there isn't an Erik doppelganger (unless they both are!!) (or unless Darcy and Erik aren't there)
could be. I dont have all the answers!

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On this area, your outline is a mixed bag. Thor spends time with doppelganger Jane, and thinks he knows her better, but actually it turns out he doesn't know real Jane at all. I think the bafflement that would come out of that head-fake is a strength of what you have. A frustrating aspect is that the characters make almost no actual progress in this area. So that's a down side.
Yup. I see that, but I think the headfake thing, as you put it, is pure gold for keeping things interesting. And then it can either grow from there while he's in self exile down on Midgard, spending time with her, or they could go their separate ways.

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The weakness of Jane's arc from my point of view is that she still winds up as the damsel-in-distress. That's a bit annoying.
When you are the superhero's love interest, you're going to wind up the damsel in distress. It's just the way it is. It keeps things interesting and the love interest character involved. Now if it can be accomplished without making the woman (or man) a pitiful and useless character, then that's where the story and characterizations get better. I think what I propose does that. And come to think of it, Jane has her own "Moral Sacrifice" to deal with potentially by making this portal for Malekith, so maybe she does so in order to save her friends who are being threatened, and hoping that someone can stop Malekith's army.

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Now, here is a subtle bit that probably won't immediately be obvious, but is important for the Thor-Loki relationship. Thor is obviously fooled by the illusion. (It's probably tidier if you have all 3 humans be doppelgangers. Otherwise, Darcy and Erik know Jane very well and risk exposing the ruse before the plot is ready for it to be exposed or else they'll have to carry the idiot ball). BUT: Loki is a master of illusions and likely was *never* fooled. And he never told his brother. He let Thor be led along by all this. His family, one of the few people who cares for him. And after all this effort Thor has gone through to make nice, to try to help him back to reconciliation, to find the good in him, this is how he repays him. Wow.
I see what you are saying but under that same idea, then Odin would not be fooled either. And another point, Loki was fooled by Odin's illusion cast his whole life over Loki's own personal body, to make him look Asgardian. So... that theory that Loki would not be fooled by an illusion, really doesn't stand up.

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I have the impression that in the book, Algrim is turned to Kurse, and there's an interim act before Kurse and Thor face each other. This is a different pacing, but it might work fine. Lots of action you have going on here!
Yup! Action packed!

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Oh, it occurs to me that the photo we saw where Malekith is holding his arms up with the bright light might be where he drops the trap door and sends Thor and Algrim down to the lava.
GOOD IDEA! I was trying to fit that in somewhere. Good stuff.

Hela vs Frigga, yeah I know probably won't work, but Hela could still kill Frigga, or the Dark Elf, either way.

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Assuming Loki has the votes (I think you should convene an Althing) Would Thor speak to the Althing about how Loki allowed him to be fooled by dark elves? He would have to undermine his brother, but it's relevant to the Asgardians' votes. Which is the lesser wrong?
I dont think the General Audience will get the Althing thing, and it might be a bit of a drag to put that sort of thing in at the end, after all the excitement of the big fights and such. Notice they wrapped up pretty quickly after the big fights in Avengers 1 and Thor 1. I think just showing Loki being made king, because again, he is an heir, and is seen as having a right to that throne, and he stood by Asgard when they needed him, so the Asgardians now support him. (and again maybe some agree with what he tried to do to Jotunheim). and then showing Thor on Earth looking in turmoil, maybe with Jane, maybe not, at the end and then end credits. Bit of a cliffhanger there too, I suppose..

and again, I think Loki will be fooled with the rest of them.

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If you don't have her countering Hela, then you have Hela running around unopposed.
It's a pretty prominent role for Hela, more than we've been led to believe. So that's switching among a lot of villains
That is a problem, but again Tyr. If she's actually back on Niffleheim, leading from her throne, and Tyr is her right hand man doing her dirty work in the field, then that could solve that issue some.

Like I said, this will be adjusted!!

I also haven't worked in any Hela - Loki interaction this way, but maybe save for Thor 3.

I also haven't worked in the Stonehendge stuff, or Alfheim... shoot.

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What about this alternative: save Surtur for Thor3, have Odin confront Hela. This doesn't manuever Loki onto the throne, but may make various aspects more manageable. Of course, he could probably dispatch her pretty quickly, even if he is weak from having done this force field thing.
Maybe, it's a lot to get in there with Surtur too, I suppose if she's manipulating things for a distance, she could also be hanging back and may be able to help turn Algrim into Kurse, if she has that power, but I dont know. I'm sticking with what I have down for Surtur at the moment.


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Overall very creative!!
thanks!


Last edited by elizah72; 11-17-2012 at 07:54 PM.
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