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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)
Originally Posted by elizah72
By the way those couple of videos on the main spoiler thread today with Malekith...
OH! I got a BINGO! In capital letters, no less! Yay me!!!
I think we have to separate what we want to happen and what certain clues seem to be pointing to happening if we want to get anywhere near the truth.
that could certainly be too. But again if...
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Odin dies, he takes Surtur out by sacrificing himself (I think something similar in the comics, right?) and if Thor is fighting the Elves on Midgard, and either Thor doesn't get back in time, or gets back to Asgard just as Odin and Surtur have their final battle and a bit late to try to stop Odin dying, then Odin will not be the one judging him. It will be the other Asgardians. And see "moral sacrifice" and patriotism etc. that I quoted up there again. If that is the way the Asgardians think, then they could conceivably shun Thor for deserting Asgard in its greatest time of need, and the death of Odin. Certainly that is a heavy weight for Thor to carry going into Avengers 2 where I believe Joss said he would be getting more personal and twisting a few knives with the characters there. And it would give a very plausible reason for Thor to be hanging out on Earth, shunned and blaming himself for what happened to Odin, (though maybe someone will tell him to read the comics, it happens that way anyway. lol). And of course that could potentially set up Loki on the throne of Asgard for Avengers 2 and maybe even Thor 3. Because he is already recognized as an heir to the throne of Asgard, no matter what he's done, and enough other Asgardians may agree that he has a right to that, (as has happened many times in our own history with monarchies). Some Asgardians may even agree with what he tried to do in Thor 1 to the Jotuns (they all dont necessarily know his true parentage, and they are the "monsters parents tell their children about at night"). Who knows, but it certainly sets up an interesting scenario for both Thor and Loki and completely turns their previous dynamic on it's head. Even if Loki goes in to leadership this time with some good intentions, you know it wont' be long before mischief and mayhem make an appearance.
I might be coming around to believing that finally. it's a lot to put in there though, and I'm a bit concerned you and some others will be disappointed if he's left up to say the very end of the movie for like 5 minutes tops.
Originally Posted by elizah72
absolutely could be more than one, from more than one character.
could be I was misunderstanding, but the idea that I was thinking I think is very interesting, and with some cool effects. But who knows if that's actually it.
I don't know, maybe he helps him out when he starts loosing the battle. But I think they will be fighting on two different realms at this point. Could be Malekith has found another way.
Okay, so here is my take on everything at the moment, and this could change certainly as stuff comes out, and I warn you AM, you may not entirely like the Jane part of this especially, but I think it's all plausible....
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
As you said (and I was thinking about this just as you were typing the other reply you had, how funny! lol) maybe the portal thing and the Elves being interested in Earth's growing tech is why they are there and trying to get Jane, so I'm going with that idea.
and this is just really my personal speculation,
people, based on a few spoilers and what happens in the comics. So... no guarantees...
Jane is on Earth doing research into portals with Erik and maybe Darcy is there too.
Malekith has Elves on Earth in human form keeping an eye on things, in particular things related to making portals.
Malekith learns that Jane and Erik are close to or now able to do this, and he decides to send someone in to kidnap Jane and/or Erik and maybe Darcy gets mixed up in this as well.
Heimdall has his work cut out for him keeping an eye on the realms right now, but he promised Thor to keep an eye on Jane and so he tries to do that some too. He sees something is going on, and Jane may be in danger from the Dark Elves. Thor finds out and gets Odin to send him down again to help (maybe Odin doesnt want them to have that power either, so that's a reason for Odin to do that). Thor goes down and retrieves Jane at least bringing her back to Asgard for safety, and maybe Erik and Darcy tag along as well for some reason.
Asgard (Nornheim) is attacked by Hela's army
Thor goes off to fight in Nornheim with the Warriors 3 and Sif.
In the meantime, Loki is in prison, Frigga talks to Loki and seems to get through to him some that his family does love him, frost giant or not.
Thor and the Asgardians have a hard time, A LOT of losses. they have to pull back. Odin uses the Odinforce to *cough McGuffin cough* put up some kind of forcefield up or keep them back from invading the heart of Asgard. But this temporary and takes A LOT out of him. THis is the reason why he can do very little else and is not really being mentioned in spoilers. And the reason he cant travel to Valhallah. He tells Thor to go make nice with his brother who knows how to get to Valhallah with his magic because there is no way for him to do that right now.
Loki seeing he might have an opportunity to get out of trouble faster and agrees. Jane and co possibly go along with them.
Loki and Thor make nice some on their excursion. Thor and Jane get to know each other a bit and he seems to be more in love with her. They get reinforcements with the dead Valallah warriors and are on their way back to Odin's palace.
Odin is weakening. Surtur and Hela know this.
On the way back (and this is the part that you won't like AM). it is revealed that one of the 3 humans, is not a human at all but a Dark Elf. I am going with Jane as that would be the biggest knife twist. It goes along with the Lorelei storyline, and also goes along with the possession by something associated with the Dark Elves spoiler. Thor would be heartbroken and it would also be revealed in the course of this that Malekith has Jane (and possibly the other two if they all are Dark Elves) and that Malekith is planning to have them build a portal from Svartalfheim to Midgard in order to have his army come and take over Midgard. Thor is furious and upset, etc etc... Loki and probably Warriors 3 are with them they all have the reinforcement army, so Thor believes he can go to Midgard and protect Midgard and save Jane. He asks Loki to send him to Midgard, after some argument about where he is needed more (would be good if this was more from Sif and the Warriors 3 than Loki)... after a bit Loki agrees to do this for his brother, as a sort of peace offering, or to get him out of the way whichever you prefer.
Hela's ship rams through Odin's barrier and into the palace and her army invades. Surtur also shows up and destroys stuff.
Thor lands on Earth and starts having a big smackdown with Malekith.
Loki Sif, etc, and the army all arrive at Odin's palace and start fighting. Odin and Loki have a moment of reconciliation when he realizes that Loki is there and Thor is not. At some point in this we have that iconic moment that jaqua99 mentioned before, but as I pictured it earlier with cuts between the Odin, then Thor on Earth, then Loki.
Thor and Malekith go at it, at some point Malekith gets desperate and is losing. Surtur steps in and makes one of his warriors into Kurse to battle Thor. Surtur then appears at Odin's palace and at some point and starts fighting Odin specifically. Frigga is still alive possibly in this scenario and is battling Hela.
Thor vs Kurse... nuff said. The real Jane and co are saved, Earth is saved. Malekith is killed, Kurse or more likely I think back to Algrim becomes the new leader of the elves, and peaceful now. All is ok on earth. Jane opens a portal for Thor to get back to Asgard to help there.
Odin and Surtur take each other out. Loki is upset. Thor gets back too late and blames himself. But they still have Hela to deal with, this is where Hela possibly kills Frigga, with a new rage in both of them, for their father's death "For Odin" (as Jaimie Alexander hashtagged not long ago, interestingly #ForOdin... ) They find a new fire in them and they beat her and her armies butts back to Niffleheim with the culmination being the big Icelantic battle which is set on Niffleheim.(again I'm guessing that the report that Loki and Thor were on different sides there, might have been assumed incorrectly).
Hela wont mess with them again, or will she?
in the end, the Asgardians have more respect for Loki for being there when he was needed most, and lost respect for Thor for going to Midgard, and Thor blames himself for Odin's death as well. So in the end we wind up with Thor going back to Earth, very upset and in turmoil, maybe with Jane, maybe not, and we have potentially Loki on the throne of Asgard for future films.
Adding: and of course the end could easily be changed to Thor gets back in time, and doesn't lose any Asgardian respect, and is given the throne, but I just think it's more interesting the other way for future films. LOL For one thing, like I said, it's an excuse to have him on Earth for Avengers 2.
I am having trouble fitting in Frigga's death here, as you may have guessed, I thought it might be cool to have Frigga fighting Hela at some point, either with her dying right after Odin's death or earlier in the film to give Loki added reason to go along with Thor, but it's tricking fitting it all in. and of course there is the worry if she winds up on Valhalla or Hel and them seeing her again, etc. And maybe it is only Odin that is dying not Frigga, and that spoiler was a mislead by the studio. Dont know yet. Like I said this is A LOT of guessing!
Alternately, Jane and co stay behind during Thor and Loki's trek to Valhallah and Dark Elf Jane kills Frigga when Frigga catches onto what she is. Thor gets back with Loki etc with reinforcements, and finds Frigga dead or dying, and they get the elf and they find out what Malekith is up to and goes to defend Midgard then (and also get further revenge on Malekith for Frigga), and again Loki helps him get back to Midgard. SO there's another scenario...
adding: as for Tyr, like I said maybe he's Hela's right hand man (pun intended
adding: at some point there possibly is a flashback involving Algrim, Malekith, Odin and Frigga, that shows why Malekith is so vengeful, possibly Thor or Odin caused his half dead status in the past.
edit: I've added a few points to that last spoiler button towards the end that some might not have seen earlier.
Also, if anyone wants to take what I have here copy/paste into another post and rework what's there to fit in with what you think then feel free.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I like it, except for 1 thing, by that I mean, disagree with. That Surtur's role will be that small. For whatever reason, twilight WILL be involved. Don't forget we saw Eternal fFlame in odin's treasure room. So i think it (based on the synopsis) really is going to be just like the arc, surtur gets build up...he attacks at the end, and the end of the movie very well may be an asgard, odin loke thor vs surtur. That's just my opinion.Like I said recently, that villain in the synopsis seems to have a pretty denctly sized role. I think we may be over crowding this movie a bit, I don't think there will be as much going on as we seem to think. I really don't have the time to write out exactly what I think, but it's similar to yours, with a few tweaks and such
either way, I think yours sounds good. though you left one thing open (super minor)
You said Malekith is dead, how is he dead?
I'll just say it. Okay, well, not all of it, but here is a short summary of what I think is going to happen in this movie. super short.
The Asgardians have fallen out with the dark elves before. Odin has fought Surtur before. Odin's treasure room will be a little more important, as the Eternal flame is discussed as the IG, to lead thanos into for future movies, since he is suppose to be the big bad for phase 2.
So. Here is what I think this movie is going to be about.
I do agree with Hela's reasons for being involved, and the fights. But as a whole, this is what I think the movie is going to be about, opposed to a whole bunch of big plots, I think Hela's role will be small, I personally don't think Karnilla will be in it. I think Surtur has been forging twilight, and plans on destroying the 9 realms. Odin tells thor of this, and he says he must use his powers to protect asgard. Surtur wants to invade asgard, with twilight, and destroy it, and take the eternal flame for power, and destroy the 9 realms. At the same time, Malekith and his dark elves invade asgard, and I think the same thing you do, to keep it short. Malekith with somehow being worked by surtur, or made some deal, or something. Though he still has his own motive. In a way, there will be two stories going on. Malekith and his elves trying to take over asgard and such and plunge everything into darkness, with thor and them going on a journey, and the other, being surtur building twilight, to invade asgard, which is being built up through out the movie. I think either its going to end as surtur finishes twilight, or it will finish after he is defeated,, the pace of the movie I think will be him. Malekith leads their army, algrim takes on thor, is defeated, mocked, and "killed" by Malekith. As algrim is in Hela's real, surtur is in backround, Hela is impressed by his hatred and passion for wanting to defeat thor, has surtur turn him into kurse, and bring him back to life. He gives thor a beating, thor ends up defeating him. defeats malekith, kurse remembers, then kills malekith. and then it eventually either...
1. Ends here, movie is over, but we know there is something going on with the character, Surtur appears after credits
2. Surtur attacks earth and asgard, Loki and Odin are being defeated by Surtur, Thor is on earth, finishing off, whatever he is doing, and portal is still open to asgard ,where he meets loki and odin, and "saves" the day....(it is a thor movie after all) and by saves the day, I mean he reinspires hope. the 3 talk...then Surtur attacks, Odin yells, "For Asgard!" Thor, "For Midgard!" then loki says, "I have nothing else...for Myself!"
Something like that, and they defeat Surtur...yada yada movie ends, after credit scene will be some something involving the IG.
that is my opinion on what is going on. I am tired, I am sorry if I don't respond to anything else in this thread lol I am wiped/burnt out