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Old 11-18-2012, 06:00 AM   #646
BatmanBeyond
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Fudgie View Post
We ain't the ones who got the mods on our tails about it.
That's because no one's reported you...yet.

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
I'll bet you don't since it would hurt your argument. But I'm afraid we'll have to anyway since you insist on pushing this:
I assure you I don't. Otherwise, I would have started with the belittling, wouldn't I?

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Originally Posted by The Joker
Oh there's belittling on both sides, no question, but 90% of any belittling remarks usually come in response to those who have been belittled in the first place.

I'll tell you something else, the belittling remarks from the defenders are far more vitriolic. I mean have you seen any name calling going on from the critics, or saying something so asinine as the movie had no problems, the problem is with the viewers?

I've never seen any moderators have to step in and tell any of the critics off before for going too far. But I have with the defenders.
I think your first point really hinges on whatever side of the debate you're on. What I mean to say is that when you're a defender you notice the most extreme and asinine critics as being the majority (while ignoring extreme remarks made by defenders because you simply don't subscribe to those viewpoints), while when you're a critic it's vice-versa.

While I concede the point regarding the vitriolic aspect, I've noticed that critics have a much more subtle way of belittling defenders and while I appreciate subtlety, I don't think belittling's ok just because it's subtle.

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Originally Posted by The Joker
Who says it's a big deal? Why do you see it as a big deal because someone posts an opinion on a public DISCUSSION message board, and people disagree with it? That's what these forums are for. Discussion.

This isn't the TDKR fan club. There's going to be critics and detractors as much as there will be fans of it.
Of course I realise this is a forum for discussions. That wasn't my point. My point was, is it really that bad to try and see something beyond what the director/author intended (in the context of related works of course)? Isn't that one of the beautiful aspects of cinema, music or the other forms of art? (And you know, this is a forum for DISCUSSION after all. )

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Originally Posted by The Joker
The Guard's post was based on people making up hypothetical scenarios that were not even in the movie or supported by events and quotes in the movie. Go back and look at the context of the discussion before you take his post out of context. What he said was perfectly valid. People were basically conjecturing with fairy tales.
I am very well aware of the context of that quote, as I was reading the last 6 or so pages of this thread when I spotted it. I don't know, maybe that wasn't his intention, but it certainely came off that way considering the nature of the debate.

@The Guard: I'll admit, maybe I was looking too far into things with that particular quote of yours. Then again, the use of the phrase "making stuff up" suggests a certain nuance considering that I think a lot of the things defenders have proposed aren't that far-fetched in the context of the trilogy. But we're getting into matters of opinion here as well, so I guess we'll just have to disagree.

And regarding your points about writing: not really what I was referring to. See above for what I said to The Joker about seeing beyond what authors intend.

One last thing, regarding your question about where do I get my impression: look around, some of the things critics say are just as bad as those said by defenders.

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Originally Posted by The Joker
I could go on but that's just a sampling. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed TDKR very much, and I am hopeful when I watch it again on blu-ray in a couple of weeks I'll have an even greater appreciation for it. It's happened to me before. It's happening with fans for The Amazing Spider-Man. A lot of them have loved it even more since it was released recently. A lot of dramatic changes in opinion.

I noticed it here with some people, too, regarding TDKR since it leaked on-line a day or so ago. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed, because I adore BB and TDK. Especially TDK. My favorite comic book movie. I consider it a masterpiece.
No, I get where you're coming from. I've had a hard time swallowing some of the things you've mentioned as well. I've managed to come around to the idea of Bane's association with the LoS mainly because I've come to like his and Talia's stories. On the other hand, I still think I would've liked Bane leading his own LoS in defiance of the Al'Ghul's and actually making his revolutionary intentions more genuine. And of course, seeing more of the citizens' (like in TDK) reactions to what was happening during the movie. I still think the way Blake figured out Bruce was Batman is ******** though. I guess it comes down to this and if you've listened to Kevin Smith's podcasts about the movie, I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about: the beautiful moments in the movie make up for most of the bad things and I've really come around to this viewpoint in the months after seeing the movie.

And I definitely agree with you about TDK, truly a masterpiece. That being said, I'll repeat that I believe BB is just criminally underrated sometimes. Not as good as TDK definitely, but still underrated. Anyway, I hope you'll come to appreciate TDKR more after seeing it again, but if not, well...we'll continue to agree to disagree then.

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Originally Posted by Deserana View Post
And vice versa for the people who hate it.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight View Post
When you're a show that has the writer of The Dark Knight, Jesus, Ben Linus and produced by JJ Abrams, it's hard to get cancelled.
Cracked.com's Bat Battle: http://www.cracked.com/article_15029...ie-batman.html

Last edited by BatmanBeyond; 11-18-2012 at 07:25 AM.
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