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Old 11-18-2012, 08:56 AM   #60
elizah72
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

American Maid Re: Jane
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Indeed. Yeah, after I submitted my post, it occurred to me that Malekith isn't going to be standing around, rubbing his hands together saying "Muhahahah!" waiting for Thor to get back from Valhalla. There'd be the whole agenda of "Okay, now you are going to build us a portal."

She could also potentially build a portal that traps/destroys the army. Is she prepared to be that brutal?
Exactly. Moral Sacrifice and is she willing to do that, and could she be clever enough to do something like what Tony did in a similar circumstance in the beginning of Iron Man 1. I dont know. Smarter people than me need to figure that one out. LOL


RE: Malekith's illusions and Loki

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But you basically are saying that Malekith is a better illusionist than Loki (unless it's someone other than Malekith putting the illusions on the doppelgangers). I don't have a strong sense of their relative powers--maybe someone else can weigh in--but this strikes me as surprising. The Marvel page doesn't compare the two directly, though it does say that Loki's sorcery powers are equal to that of Karnilla, who is the most skilled sorceress of the Nine Realms. That implies that Loki is better than Malekith. So it's not as clear to me that he would indeed be fooled by this illusion on the dark elves.
I feel like we havent really seen the tip of the iceberg of what Loki can do in the comics, or Thor or Odin for that matter, so it's hard to make a judgement on comparing Loki and Malekith in MCU. What I can say is what they are filming now, and what looks like a lot of magic being used on the part of Malekith, that Malekith is pretty damn powerful, and it would seem more adept with magic than Loki is by the time of Avengers (Malekith is doing it himself, no spear or scepter that I can see)



Jaqua99 RE: King Thor
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Originally Posted by jaqua99 View Post
Just wanna adress these first Wait, so you think this Thor franchise is going to end with Loki on the throne instead of Thor???? We already got a lot of forshadowing that thor will eventually be king. Plus having thor have the throne makes sense if and when the avengers and who ever else fight thanos with the IG. Thor may have the Odinforce if it is involved..allowing him to be more powerful to fight Thanos.
Again what I am drawing on is the theme of "moral sacrifice" and that stuff I quoted earlier about patriotism vs nationalism and serving one's country. You do not put a big red bus with "Moral Sacrifice" blazed in big letters across it, and Stan Lee possibly driving the bus, no less, without that being a very very important theme. So, when trying to figure out plot for Thor 2 everyone, definitely think "Moral Sacrifice".

Now I know it is a theme where Thor will often go off and protect Midgard in the comics and he's already been showing doing that. Now how do you suppose "everybody upstairs in space" (to quote Tom) feels about that? It's like having a president that is always flying over to France to check on how France is doing, and to protect them. It's not a good quality to have in a president or a king to be more concerned with another country's welfare. So A LOT of Asgardians may not like this, at all. And these are not perfect people, maybe A LOT of them agree with what Loki tried to do to the Jotuns, maybe A LOT have the opinion that Midgard should be left to it's own fate. I feel confident A LOT will not appreciate Thor going off to protect Midgard when Asgard needs him. This would certainly set up a scenario where Loki is looking better to them as King (and I believe Loki has become King more than once in comics yes?, maybe not quite this way though), and he's already been acknowledged as an heir to the throne by those people, and that he has a right to that throne. (and again, in monarchies here, people do some pretty bad stuff and still wind up on the throne, without people opposing them enough to stop them)

Anyway, back to moral sacrifice, in my scenario Thor is being expected to let Midgard fall for the greater good of Asgard as his moral sacrifice. I think this is most likely scenario. And when he refuses to do this, then while it may be a win for Earth, it is a major loss for Asgard. And the other Asgardians MAY blame him for it, and who knows maybe Loki helps push it in that direction more. I dont know. But again it would be an interesting turn of events and would set up a legit reason for Thor to be on Earth in Avengers 2. Otherwise if he's king that may make him too powerful, and the other heros won't have as much to do, and for that matter he could send his Asgardian army down to fight whatever. So, we need to hold Thor back a bit as far as his power levels are concerned I think, for now at least, due to the worry of making him too poweful when it comes to the Avengers movies.

And maybe, as in the comics Odin is not actually dead. Saved for a surprise in Thor3.

Lastly, if we take a note from Star Wars, the original, as a basis for how a trilogy of movies *should* work, and apply that to Thor 1 -3 (potentially) then follow me here.... In Star Wars 1, the hero is introduced as a sort of willful young man, and he learns some lessons and loses a loved one along the way, but in the end BIG win for the Heros/rebellion, right? Then in Empire Strikes back, the rebels are hit hard, Han is captured and frozen in carbonite and carted off to Jabba, and Luke is expected to make a moral sacrifice by Yoda and Obi Wan to let his friends die, which he cannot accept, and along with his butt kicked, he loses his hand. Then of course we have Return of the Jedi with another big win for the rebels, and the bad guys are defeated, and the villain redeems himself.

Now apply this to Thor. Thor is introduced as a willful, even arrogant, young man, he learns some lessons along the way, loses a loved one along the way, but Earth wins big because the Destroyer is stopped and they now have Thor as it's protector. Thor 2 it would follow that you may see something more similar to what I describe above for Empire Strikes Back. So #2 is not necessarily going to be a good guy totally wins episode, in fact it likely won't, with this in mind. Now in my scenario we have Asgard being hit hard, Odin possibly dying (or Frigga) being parelelled with Han possibly dying and being taken by Boba Fett, and of course Thor has a moral sacrifice that is expected of him, that he cannot accept, and he gets his butt kicked but survives it. And so him losing the throne, or stepping away from it or both, could be paralelled with Luke losing his hand and feeling very defeated in general. Then in Thor 3, well I just hope that we dont have any Ewok's singing.

of course they may not follow this model so closely, but I do think there is a strong chance of this not being a "the hero wins everything again!" episode, especially if they are planning a 3rd Thor and of course more Avengers. The heros have to be defeated sometimes in order to keep things interesting for the audience.

In regards to Malekith dying, I dont know how, assuming it's Kurse. Or maybe they'll save that part of Thor 3, though I doubt that. I do like your scenario of Algrim going back to Hel and Surtur and Hela beefing him up, and sending him back. My only question is how could he not remember Malekith trying to kill him right away. Other than that I like the concept.


Okay, so you know, I am sort of sticking with what I have written for my summary for now with a few adjustments which we've discussed like

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Tyr being the lead man for Hela, and Hela staying behind. And I'm still not sure about how Frigga dies, if she does, or how Stonehenge figures into it, or Alfheim assuming that is used somehow... and there is something else I'm probably forgetting...

Edit: oh, yeah, I would also need to add a scene with Algrim/Kurse and Odin and Frigga (per Adewale tweets). So at the moment I would add in a flashback scene explaining why Malekith is half dead, maybe Teen Thor and Teen Loki are to blame and so a scene with Frigga and Odin, saving the boys from the Dark Elves. Until we get more info about that part of it, or I can fit that into my version some other way. those are the two things I would change about my summary until we get more info.


anyway, I'm spending too much time here! lol! Tis' addictive, verily.

Still very enthusiastic Jaqua99, just have other stuff to do. lol

Plus I dont think I can figure out much more until more leaks, For one thing if other characters show up for the fight scenes they are currently filming then that may blow much of my summary out of the water. So... I'm sitting on my summary for now and waiting to see what else leaks.

Again if anyone wants to give it a try, feel free to copy paste my summary here to save yourself time and then just rework that as you like. (maybe put your changes in bold so we can see the differences more clearly). I'll be curious to see what other visions people have for this.


Last edited by elizah72; 11-18-2012 at 12:10 PM. Reason: just adding something to my last spoiler button about what I would add to my summary...
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