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Old 11-19-2012, 02:35 PM   #96
Surfer
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
Surfer posted this plot outline over in the main spoilers thread. Normally I would quote only the part to which I'm responding. But for easy reference, I am quoting it in its entirety.




Wow, this is really great! You've thought a lot of detail out. I tried working out a revision to the end of Elizah's outline and found that it's not so easy to work out a lot of subsidiary details. So kudos to you for working so much in.

Odin banishes Loki to Muspelheim? I don't know much about that realm, but it strikes me as pretty severe. Of course, Loki has committed some serious crimes, and Odin has not thus far shown himself to be the coddling kind of father when it comes to discipline.


I'm interested in how you have Malekith have Surtur target Alfheim first. Perhaps the light and dark elves have bad blood between them, or maybe they have long been rivals and Malekitih figures it would be useful to take them out first. I'm not certain how you'd stage it off the top of my head, but a fun angle in my mind would be to have Surtur manipulating Malekith and Malekith manipulating Surtur, each thinking he is the one with the upper hand. Of course, Surtur is far more powerful than Malekith, but Malekith would not be the first ambitious leader to think he has more control than he actually has.

I'm not certain Alfheim, Vanaheim, and Asgard are all on the same planet in the regular Marvel setup, but that does solve one of the big logistical hassles of this film, that of transporting everyone here and there without the Bifrost.


I'm curious as to why you don't show Algrim's transformation to Kurse. I suppose there's a lot going on in the movie, though you miss an opportunity to show a somewhat different motivation (revenge) than just being a brute-muscle guy for the dark elves. Now, you do use a similar element of Malekith sending Thor and his opponent down to the molten lava. So you possibly still could have this transformation, start with Algrim, go to the pit of lava, and then Kurse. You'd need to add a mechanism for his transformation in that event.


One of the strengths of this outline is how many battle sequences there are. I think that will be reflected in the film, even if it's not this exact way. Another strength is showing just how hard Asgard has been hit. As I've said before, I see one of the currents in this film (and to a lessere extent, the Avengers line) is the balance of power shifting among worlds. Asgardian prominence isn't what it used to be. That's going to be very hard for them to process (but that's material for a future film)


I have the impression that Thor doesn't do as well against magic as he does against other forms of attacks (as Elizah and I have been touching on, he seems to be vulnerable to illusions, for example). So Thor may need some help. Perhaps Loki can go over there. Loki would probably like the idea of Thor owing him big time


And I also like how you take it to a place we have been discussing, where the Asgardians feel like Thor has deserted them. Interestingly, you have Odin survive. Do you anticipate him dying in Thor3? Or will the franchise end with him remaining king?


Thanks for sharing it!



Your welcome, and it is probably more wrong then right, but I at least had fun doing it.


If anyone would like to revise it or take parts of it to make up their own scenario please feel free.


Regarding your first two questions.


The reason I banished Loki to Muspelheim as well as why I brought Surtur to Alfheim first instead of directly to Asgard (in my version above). It is mostly because I didn't want Surtur and the sons of Muspell to just arrive at Asgards door in the first act and catch everyone off guard and destroy everything. It just felt too destructive too soon in the film, better to have the impending threat throughout the film.


However, I kind of felt it was necessary that Surtur be released in the first Act so Malekith has the distraction necessary to keep the Asgardians busy while he attacks earth with his Dark Elf forces. Hence me picking Alfheim for the destination for Malekith to release Surtur on the Asgardian planetoid and yes I agree bad blood could be used as the reason for him destroying Alfheim first. If you are questioning if it is a planet with all 3 realms (including Vanaheim) you can view it here (at least if we are keeping it comic accurate).


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Asgard_the_nine_worlds.jpg


So, getting back to my original sentence about Loki in Muspelheim if Surtur is going to be launched as an attack in the first act on the Asgardian planetoid (to provide the distraction for Malekith invading earth), who better to warn Odin of the threat then Loki (who would like nothing more then to have the opportunity to gain his fathers good favor and to be able to continue his manipulations without being hindered). So, I decided banishment to Muspellheim could work given where he would be in the film during the first Act (being punished) and more or less where he would need to be to learn of the events. I don't know if it's a great solution, but it's what I came up with.


In addition I would like to comment that I thought we had gotten confirmation that all 9 realms are suppose to be shown in this film, because I hear several people stating that it is too much. If it has not been confirmed then perhaps they are right and we will not see Alfheim or Vanaheim in this film. However, I was under the impression confirmation of all 9 realms being shown was made, and if that is the case in my version it would actually still be missing realms that require explaining. Maybe elizah72 can help me with that, as she is good at filling in the gaps and thinking outside the box.


As for why I didn't show Algrim's transformation into Kurse. Plain and simple just felt it would take up to much time seeing Algrim battle Thor, having him be betrayed by Malekith, having him loose his memory of what actually happened, turn into Kurse blaming Thor, have him return to battle Thor, have him regain his memory, and have him kill Malekith. I just think if someone looses there memory it is generally a slow process for someone to regain it. Which is fine in comics, because Kurse can be searching for Thor and have many battles with him through 100's of comics before coming to the realization that Thor was not responsible and then go after Malekith and kill him. However, in a movie where Malekith and the Dark elves are invading earth you can't have it seem like he has lost his memory for a long duration. So, I changed aspects of the character to fit with the flow of the story I created trying to leave elements of the character intact when possible.
However, as I have said many times previously I am all for sticking with the character origins, so if they can figure out a way to do it and fit it within the context of the film without it feeling forced then that's what I would like to see.


As for your comment about Thor being weaker against magic, some might consider Thor's ability to call upon lightning as a magic of sorts. However, I would agree Thor is a warrior mostly and he can stand up to some of the strongest physical characters in the Marvel Universe and it would make sense that he does not fair as well against characters of a magical nature like his brother Loki or Malekith. So, yeah I am really looking forward to this battle of might vs. magic, especially since with Loki you always feel like Thor is holding back some because it's his brother, but with Malekith the battle should be brutal and unrelenting.


As for your comments about Thor deserting Asgard and his choice being responsible for lots of destruction. Yeah, I think that you and elizah72 are absolutely correct about the moral sacrifice tease on the side of the bus and what it most likely means for Thor and Asgard. So, basically built from there.


Regarding why I choose not to kill off Odin. Well 2 reasons. I really like having Odin be the ruler and most powerful Asgardian, because if you kill off Odin and Thor takes on the Odinforce then his battles with Loki and most other villians like the Enchantress, or the Executioner would be very one sided battles in favor of Thor. In order for the movies to continue to be enjoyable I would say he needs to keep his battles more evenly matched. In addition the movie requires someone to defeat Surtur, and even if someone said well Thor with the Odinforce could do it, well to me it would not be enough. Odin has had his powers for a long period of time and has had a chance to know how to use his powers, so in my opinion Thor with the Odin force (just being given the powers) would not be as powerful as Odin himself, and even Odin is struggling to battle with Surtur. So, I don't think Thor could stop Surtur even with the Odinforce if it was just newly given to him.


So, that is some of my reasoning feel free to sound off at the normal place below.

Surfer

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