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Old 11-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #111
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
Yes. It's good to talk about all of the possibilities, since we can't get into the brain of the writers and director and producers and we dont know what they are interested in showing. We have a whole year to wait, no sense in limiting what we are going to discuss so early. And the speculation is that most if not all 9 realms will be represented, so no harm in trying to figure out how that might work and fit into a 2 hour movie.

We certainly won't have it completely right but it's fun trying.

jaqua99 and cherokeesam:

*sigh* okay.... so, are you guys saying, if I am to understand correctly, that brilliant, manipulative, self centered, self preservationist, Loki, is actually stupid enough and suicidal enough to place his life in mortal danger by going to Jotunheim with Thor and co at the beginning of the film as part of his grand master plan to get the throne? Because that shows a great deal of stupidity on his part and again makes him suicidal (although he was that in the end). He had no way of knowing that he would survive that trip as it was clearly foreshadowed by the trepidation of Sif and the Warriors 3. And so he and the others going on that trip, the one that started the impending war, was most definitely not his plan. Did he manipulate in other places? Sure. But that part, the war itself, definitely not. A truly wise manipulator would have planned that Jotunheim part out well ahead of time, and very definitely would have planned an airtight excuse for why he couldn't go down to Jotunheim (I think I hear mother calling! I better stay behind so they dont get suspcious! etc...). So, in that case, if it was all along his perfectly planned out plan to have Thor go down and start a war with Jotunheim, then Thor and co would have gone down without him, and either died, or Loki would have tattled on them and saved them but then the war would have been started and Loki would be looking mighty good as a potential heir for not going with them. That's another thing. Loki went without much argument or trying to weasel out of it, and so was a part of it. This was certainly risking that Odin would be angry with him as well (which he was). So again, pretty dumb on Loki's part if that was his plan all along. And I give him credit for being A LOT smarter than that.

But I digress, they did go down all together, and what happened when they were down there? Here is where you should watch again because you apparently missed this very important exchange:

Thor, stop and think. Look around
you. We are outnumbered.

Know your place, brother...

You know not what your actions
would unleash. I do. Go now, while I still
allow it.

Thor simmers. Loki speaks up.

We will accept your most gracious
The others look to Thor imploringly. Thor stares Laufey down
a beat -- then relents. He turns to leave. His comrades
breathe a sigh of relief and follow, when a Frost Giant
nearby mutters under his breath.

Run back home, little princess.
Thor stops in his tracks. Loki goes white. He knows what's

In one quick move, Thor pulls Mjolnir, swings it, and KNOCKS
the Jotun clear across the plaza.

This is from the online script by the way (to save me some time), but again, clearly, the plan all along was not to be on Jotunheim risking life and limb to purposely start a war, that he will likely NOT benefit from, since he has a pretty good chance of dying there (along with the rest of them) in this scenario. Again I point out, a truly intelligent manipulator would have known the mortal danger of going down there and found a way to get himself out of it pretty fast, if that was his plan all along. And not only that, he tried to stop Thor, keep the peace and walk away, and Thor couldn't keep his temper in check, despite the danger to him and his friends and brother.

I could actually do a LOOOONG step by step description of his manipulations and motivations in Thor 1, as I see it, to explain it all to you further but I'd rather get back to speculating here about Thor 2. If it's all right with you two. Perhaps go over to the Loki thread if you want to continue this topic with me, so we can get back to Thor 2 here. Ok?

Just so you know I get just as fired up when people who LOVE Loki a little too much start hating on Odin and Thor and blast them for their treatment of him. The truth is somewhere in between with any of these characters, which I suppose is what makes them so interesting to me. If it was all black and white I wouldn't care to debate the characters motivations.

Well at least we agree on that.

ok, fair enough

I suggested that a while ago, that maybe after the credits they'd have a scene where Thanos or his henchmen grab Loki, or maybe grab something in Odin's vault with Loki's help to lead in to Avengers 2. But someone said no way Thanos would show up, he's to be saved for Avengers 2. (that might have been jaqua99 that said that actually! can't remember for sure ) I still think it's entirely possible for the after credits scene leading into A2, yes. I still dont agree that he's going to have a Marauder army attacking Asgard at this point though.

I didnt see the Other at Bourne, I saw some creatures that look similar but they dont have the pointy chin he does (or all the stuff over his face). What I've seen doesn't quite look enough like him so I'm going with he's not there, and those are possibly trolls.
I wrote up a whole response to the loki thing, and you would actually probably understand, but you are right, thor 2 is this movie, and there is no point discussing that anymore. I'll just say that Loki's motives were to gain the throne and be accepted by his father like thor, that was his motive, but everything that happened, was due to his manipulation and "risk taking" (taking risks isn't stupid, especially when it works), the reason for this manipulation was to work his way into approval in Odin's eyes. But don't even bother responding to this loki thing, because I agree, we should talk about thor 2, and you probably have better will power than I do, if you respond, I will no doubt keep *that* discussion going lol.

wi With as much going on in this thread as it is, we can't afford any derailed trains lol.

I am not sure about the other, I think it could have been simply someone a part of that army.

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
Look, obviously it's up to the writers, director, producers, whether she gets through to him or not... but I for one really hope she does, because if she is going to go I want her to have a strong impact on at least one of the arcs of this movie. Especially when so much of her was cut from Thor 1. She just has to go out making an impact, it's got to mean something. And I, for one, think it will.

Speaking of which, reposting the Renee Russo Frigga interview where she talks a little about this (from last August I think...)

and since I just found the old "casting calls" stuff on reposting that here too for reference and ideas...
SOOO much stuff, we probably will be seeing the realms. And men of fire...Surtur's demons?

also, someone in another thread mentioned Loki transforming algrim into kurse, and tricking him into thinking thor did it to him. I would LOVE that

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Last edited by jaqua99; 11-19-2012 at 09:50 PM.
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