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Old 11-23-2012, 03:29 PM   #176
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Default Re: Bane or the Joker?

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Yes, but think about it- they also used him. They used his company to get they wanted. They used it as a means to get a nuclear device that's waiting for them within Gotham City. They took hold of his "precious armory" so they could establish marshal law. It's just like how they wanted to use him to get the microwave emitter in Batman Begins. Bruce was selected because of his status in Gotham in the first place. "As Gotham's favorite son, you will be ideally placed...".
But again, you're arguing major differences, and somehow saying that their motives are exactly the same, when they aren't. Ra's didn't steal the microwave emitter to spite Bruce. Ra's was already full steam ahead on destroying Gotham, with or without Bruce. The only thing that Ra's did to seek revenge on Bruce, was burn down the manor. Other than that, it was still the same plan from the beginning.

They needed Wayne Enterprises to accomplish their mission. We're not shown any comparable corporation within Gotham. His biggest rival, Daggett is into cement pouring. Wayne was the one guy within Gotham who had the resources, and they turned his wealth against his city. The whole point is Bruce Wayne IS Gotham. Attacking one is attacking the other. That's how it coincides. The biggest thing that they do purely out of revenge is keep him alive instead of killing him, so he can watch their plan unfold. If revenge/hatred wasn't a factor, Talia would have had Bane kill him, instead of just break him, just like they killed Daggett when they got what they wanted from him.
See the thing is, you keep acting like Bruce is the only person in the word who has a nuke. Talia waited specifically for Bruce to agree to use his energy project, so they could use that against him specifically. If they wanted a nuke to blow up Gotham, they could have got one 8 years before Bruce was finally stranglehold into agreeing into the energy project with Tate/Talia.

It's like how Rachel tells Bruce in Batman Begins, justice and revenge are never the same. The fact that the LOS' ideals are tainted by revenge here is what makes it so evil and twisted. So in that sense, yes I can agree that revenge was a huge factor. But I think Bane and Talia fully believe that their entire plan is bringing justice and is fulfilling the goals of Ra's' global ideals. Similar thing with Two-Face in TDK. His killing spree is driven by revenge for Rachel's murder, but there's some sense of justice there too...he's taking out a lot of the trash and he's giving his victims a "fair" chance, same one Rachel had. That line between justice and revenge is something the films were always exploring, obviously starting with Batman himself.
I don't see it this way, at all. Again, Ra's ideals were to bring balance to the world, not chaos or destruction due to revenge. Like its been brought up before, Gotham was not even close to a state of needing to be destroyed, so in reality, they're not fulfilling Ra's destiny, if they were, they would be attacking a city that needed to be "purged". But seeing as how they went through SOOOOO many efforts to cripple, both financially and physically, while spitting in Bruce's face, I don't see how it can be anything other than revenge. None of it adds up to what you're saying.

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