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Old 11-25-2012, 12:11 AM   #213
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Default Re: Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
I don't think he would, I do agree with that, but I really think the place that's going to be sorted out is in A2.
Not too sure I would bank on Loki appearing in Avengers 2. He has no reason to. I mean, I don't know. i am still on board with the whole masters of evil thing, so I dont really have much to say on avengers 2 at the moment, in terms of figuring out what is going on, it puts thor to shame, so god knows lol.

n your synopsis, I am agreeing with the majority of it. Only thing I question is Hela/Surtur and Kurse, I think they'll appear probably but not sure at what capacity, and I think there is a lot of merit to the idea of the Beyonder/Cosmic Cube/Tesseract stuff winding up being mixed in with Jane and Selvig and their wormhole experiments. That could be a reason why Jane may be brought to Asgard, to try to get Odin to talk sense into her and to drop that as being too dangerous a power for Earth to have. Lots of foreshadowing of danger that she would ultimately ignore and pay the price. That would hit pretty hard if the possession stuff is true and she is transforms and Thor can't save her (at least in Thor 2), lots of drama potential there. And in movies creating drama is a good thing. Much more interesting and heartbreaking to watch than just having Hela or Surtur do it. But maybe. I don't have a HUGE problem with it otherwise. I think Surtur powering up Malekith is very likely though, good idea! That would solve that problem because Malekith appears to be holding his own pretty well.
I like. Thoguh I think you may be looking a wee bit into the tesseract thing. I just don't see the beyonder appearing in this movie. It is essentially god, and well, if he is still portrayed as he is, I just dont think it will happen. It seems a bit touchy, especially with religious people. I think that it will be hela or surtur to change algrim. I just don't see them introducing the beyonder, even as the sentient cosmic cube, into this movie
Here is the synopsis for Thor 1

so ancient war refers to the Frost Giants, and darkest forces of Asgard refer to The Destroyer, and "most dangers villain of his world" refers to Loki. However there was so much more than that going on and explored with their relationship in the film, and that is not hinted at here at all. I would also add that the antagonist of Shield that he has to deal with in the film is not mentioned at all in the synopsis. So clearly there is stuff they aren't telling us. I do think in the Thor 2 synopsis, that that phrase you are saying is an indicator of Surtur, could only be referring to him working behind the scenes throughout the film, and not necessarily showing himself. Just as I think some of the stuff above was a bit of an exaggeration/understatement about certain characters roles.

And comparison the Thor 2 synopsis

so one thing that has bothered me about this Surtur thing for "shadowy enemy" is that when I see pictures of him the last thing I think of is "shadowy", if you know what I mean. So it could be that he's behaving in a shadowy manner, pulling strings and starting fights behind the scenes and out of view from the Asgardians (but not necessarily the audience), and maybe they suspect that but don't know for sure if it's him or Thanos doing this. And so that solves that problem (I think) without having to have things come to a head with him during the course of the film. Just keep him behaving shadowy until Thor 3.
Okay. I am with you heere.... Elizah, I like it!

Fights to restore order across the cosmos", which I believe is referring to fighting among the Vanir, Nornheim, Asgard and whatever other realms they want to work in there that are now fighting and jostling for power after the bifrost is destroyed and it looks like the Asgardians have lost control. This keeps the Asgardians busy for most of the film, which is why they don't come down to help Thor with the Dark Elves on Earth.

"but an ancient race let by Malekith," now this makes me think that there may be some fight scenes prior to the Earth ones that they are filming now, that shows Thor defeating the Dark Elves (this could be where Alfheim comes into it, if they attack Alfheim or could be they attack Odin's palace and Frigga dies here) and Thor and co manage to slap them back down to Svartalheim, and maybe injures Malekith in the process, and this is why Malekith is vengeful and sets his eyes on Earth next if he knows that Thor cares about it somehow. This could also be the point where Surtur comes in and gives him a boost, as you suggest. and I assume Surtur or Hela may also be able to give him the lead on what or who Thor cares about for his revenge.
Exactly. I think there will be more battles than what we are seeing. Perhaps some battles in other realms too.

Now the "faced with an enemy even Odin and Asgard cannot withstand" that bothers me, because that would seem to indicate Surtur will appear and kill Odin in this film. But, it might very well be simply foreshadowing Thor 3. I don't know. I have been thinking that both Odin and Frigga dying in Thor 2 is really too much. I think it's only going to be only one at this point. I also have questions about whether they would really do Ragnarok at all, especially at the end of Thor 2, (seems waaaaaay too early for that) however again this phrasing would seem to be foreshadowing it, but may be foreshadowing for the 3rd film.
I agree with all of this as well. It could be forshadowing. Everything you said here is what is my concern when it comes to dissecting this synopsis. We'll see in time I suppose

Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
Jon (Aqua) said:

A while back I looked up a bunch of Feige pronouncements on movies that have already been released. My take on them was that he leaves out details and keeps it mysterious. That's quite reasonable; he's trying to stoke excitement about the movie. But he doesn't dissemble.

BTW, I think a lot of your synopsis makes sense. I am back to leaning toward Surtur in Thor 3, which would mean that the fight with Malekith is the big showdown. They can foreshadow Surtur and have a lot of room to do new story (or weave in another favorite bit) in Thor3 prior to the big showdown with Surtur. Of course, Thanos will be referenced, and may turn out to be behind some of the events of the film (such as the army) without him appearing in the film or acting directly.
That's what I think. The synopsis is just throwing me off a bit. I assume surtur will appear after the credits.

Elizah said:

Yeah, I think the big fight at Greenwich University comes later in the film than other fights. Thor shadowboxes for some of that fight. That suggests Kurse, and that suggests Algrim has already changed. Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was in Iceland for that shoot. So maybe Thor fights Algrim in Iceland, and he's transformed there. (Natalie Portman was not in Iceland, so that suggests that the malevolent spirit does not change Algrim into Kurse).
I still say Surtur transforms kurse

Elizah said:

You might be talking about the malevolent spirit transforming Algrim into Kurse, but I'm going to assume you're talking about Jane flaming out because she's overwhelmed by the malevolent spirit.

I have kind of mixed feelings about this angle. Jane is playing a role in the story that uses her abilities, so she's not just a love interest. That's a good thing. The idea of Odin trying to forbid Jane from conducting her research is rather condescending. Granted, that's not inconsistent with canon about Odin, but no one is scolding Erik, for example. Also, there are plenty of examples in history in which authorities can forestall, but cannot ultimately hold back, truth. Even if they succeed in talking Jane out of doing the research, someone else will.

And I'm a little uneasy about the idea of Jane flaming out because of the malevolent spirit. I know you, Elizah, have seen this article; in case others have not, here is the link: The article remarks about how there are four strong female characters in the film (while Jane has her flaws (and Frigga's role was pared back too much), she is stronger than a lot of other female characters in cinema.) One of the points it makes is "Jane is never punished in the narrative for being a workaholic". This idea of the flameout kind of seems like the narrative is going to punish Jane for being a scientist (in a way that Erik, who has already been possessed and already opened a portal that lets a bunch of bad guys onto Midgard, has not been).

But I'm also still puzzled as to how this possession thing fits into the rest of the story. There are aspects of it that don't make sense. In addition to the power level of the malevolent spirit, which I've mentioned before, here's another question. Why can't Odin successfully exorcise the malevolent spirit? Why does she need to tag along with Thor and Loki? There are some pieces missing.
as to the possession. It could be something very minor. the first synopsis for thor 1, as elizah said, was most certainly decieving. The whole jane being possessed could be something as minor as, a random spirit or energy possessing jane, and then they free it.

crap, that wasn't in the synopsis. So idk, nevermind lol

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