Originally Posted by MAKAVELI25
But with the Joker it works, with Bane it just doesn't. The trilogy takes great measures to show why Ra's and Bruce are the types of people who would be devoted to LOS ideals, yet TDKR doesn't do the same for Bane. Yes he has had a horrible life and everything, but what in particular makes him believe in LOS ideals? Why is he so dedicated to fulfilling Ra's Al Ghul's goals if he was excommunicated? In the end the only motivation explicitly shown is that he loves Talia, everything else is somewhat ambiguous and up to interpretation.
I can agree to this. I guess I just don't see it having some room for interpretation as a bad thing.
For me though, both Bane and Bruce were people in need of some direction in life when Ra's found and freed both of them. If you view Bane as a double negative as Bruce as I believe the film intended us to, I find he becomes a lot easier to understand.
Originally Posted by Travesty
But there's a difference between how the two characters are portrayed in the mythos. The Joker literally does crazy schemes all the time, because he's The Joker. It worked for the movie, and it's the way he's portrayed in different mediums, as well. Bane, on the other hand, doesn't work that way. He's not a crazed lunatic running around, he's a smart tactitioner with a more formulated plan, which we should all know, is why Nolan wanted to use Bane, because of how different they are from each other.
Comparing the two motives, or saying "one is an absolute, therefore, the other can be too", is apples and oranges....
I agree, it's apples and oranges. Though I still believe both of them to be absolutes in their own distinct ways, so I couldn't help but draw the comparison. And even if Bane was doing everything for Talia, she herself represents some kind of ideal to him, because it's pretty clear that they are not actually lovers or anything. There's something very pure about Bane's motivation and how it all stemmed from wanting to protect the innocent and how that became perverted to the point where it was unrecognizable...again, a mirror for Bruce and an alternate path he could have taken.