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Old 11-25-2012, 08:35 PM   #517
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 289
Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - Part 6

The true nature of the universe is energy. Everything is energy. Our human senses allow us to observe, experience and access only a small part of the electro-magnetic spectrum. Everything we sense exists on this spectrum somewhere. But everything around us is actually made up of electro-magnetic waves that we're barely aware of because of our physical existence. Things like reptiles and fish can see more than us in the visible sections of the spectrum, going into the infrared. There are audible parts of the spectrum that we can't hear that dogs can... There may be parts of the spectrum we will never touch or manipulate unless we evolve things like our vision further like reptiles, or even increase our use of our brains overtime, unlocking that extra 90% that humans don't use.

That's a great way of breaking down fictional magic that someone just posted. I think we'll see a little bit of everything. Showing intra-dimensional/inner mystical powers over energies/matter, as well as extra(or intra)-dimensional powers from the being possessing Jane. Which would be close to true magic that can't be understood, because it's coming from a dimension outside our reality that the Asgardians are aware of. Malekith doesn't need science to help him access/manipulate these energies, because his power would come from the inside, inner mysticism, intra-dimensions. His thought-casting or spells/enchantments are able to be directed within his mind instead of uttering them. He only has to think the spell to cause a vibration outside his body. Malekith doesn't need extra-dimensional powers from anyone, but may be able to communicate with the extra or intra dimensional i.e. Hela and/or Surtur.

Less powerful sorcerers have to say the spell because they can't project their thoughts as a vibration, so they need the sound vibration. Or in Strange's case he would sometimes need to say spells because he's human... and needs the sound vibration to cause higher level magic. Extra-dimensional genetics would play into it in my theory. Something Iron Man takes an interest in, and so does Sterns... A radically changed version of Sterns when we meet him.

The subtle vibration that's released and associated to the spell/enchantment thought-casted or spoken/written, brings sudden ripples into the physical universe.
These vibrations cross into other areas of the electro-magnetic spectrum, and aspects of the sub-atomic world connecting us all, that only sorcerers/mystics are aware of and manipulate directly with their minds.

So yes, in a way them having the power to manipulate matter on a large scale simply by directing their own energies and altering the underlying subatomic configuration of things is like a form of magic.

No real-world mystic would be able to have the willpower to actually do some of the things outlined in fiction.

I really think they will stick to the whole magic and science being one thing. Mystics, enchanted item users, and those who access other dimensions for their powers are the only ones truly aware of the subtle energies that connect all matter.

This is almost proven science too, some of the inter-connected stuff, when you look at some of the new ideas in quantum mechanics. The god particle has the perfect name to be referenced by either Tony or Pym in relation to Asgardians and magic/mysticism. Additionally, we still don't know enough about the existence of higher and lower dimensions in string theory, or things in the subatomic world. So, it's an area of science we don't understand completely... And can be easily tied into mystical beliefs about everything being one.

It's a perfect way to make Ant Man's powers a little less magical, while using science to help the magical characters seem more realistic at the same time. The Asgardians are more like users of magically enchanted artifacts, but Thor has to use some will power to cause lightning etc. His enhanced strength and durability would be the result of their nature and position in the dimensions + any added power the enchantment on the hammer is giving him. Eventually he could use the Hammer to do other things like open wormholes.. Only characters who develop a strong will power and can remain incredibly dedicated like Strange or Malekith, can use actual "magic" by manipulating matter on a large scale, starting from tiny vibrations that pulse through the entire electro-magnetic spectrum. Even the parts we can't see or understand.

Thor can do this too with his lightning, because he has to direct the energy the Hammer gives him. He chooses when to use lightning.

I've sort of been a neo-pagan since I was 13, experimented with the Wiccan versions of mystical beliefs, Sumerian/Egyptian magic, and just about everything in-between. In real world "magic" it all comes down to will power, self-hypnosis, and self-fulfilling prophecies. To understand the so-called "secret" you need to understand the nature of the subconscious and its ability to work out complex problems, even while you're consciously unaware. This is why when you have a problem you're told to sleep on it. Sometimes the solution just comes to you or at least seems more clear in the morning. The subconscious is so powerful that we still don't completely understand that aspect of science/our own biology.

In the real world "the secret" only kind of works because you're doing a form of self-hypnosis where you're repeating your goals over and over again and this gets locked into your subconscious. Without you knowing... You're self-hypnotizing and you're not being given a post-hypnotic suggestion to stop that behaviour until you reach your goal or forget about it. There are psychological reasons why it kind of works. You aren't attracting the things that you want to happen... Your subconscious mind is actually working on that goal that's become locked in your mind, even while unaware. It only seems like magic when "the secret" works, because your subconscious has already set you on a path towards the goal. The conscious mind is unknowingly working towards this goal without you thinking about it.

That's how "the secret" sometimes works. It's not magic. Real-world magic is more like a trick in almost all cases. A trick that requires skill and will or smoke and mirrors/stage items to work properly.
Even the people who were involved in a lot of real world "magical" orders were scientists and philosophers in some cases.
People like Sir Francis Bacon were said to practice witch-craft, or the power of the will.
By the time Crowley comes about you really have to understand and read between the lines to see what Crowley is saying. He's not really evil, he likes to appear as the most evil man in the world, and writes evil-seeming things and ideas to conceal his true teachings. It's part of his trick, a subtle manipulation to stop the uninitiated from seeing what is actually there. Satanists are misguided because they took his words to be the absolute truth and didn't look at what he was drawing from.
They worship Satan, but Satan isn't giving them any powers. And they function differently from other self-hypnosis forms of magic used by other groups. Any power they get is coming from the worship of self. Apotheosis. Turning one self into a "god" through will-power. That's at the heart of a lot of the higher level beliefs on the dark side of magic.
Black magic or chaos magic is really just emphasis of the self over all others. White magic is supposed to be for helping people and others through subtle manipulation. There are grey areas, or areas where the two merge within grey magic... A twilight or grey area.

A lot of the groups and members don't even understand that they can't do magic, they're simply enhancing their will-power and moving towards their goals faster. Not actually bringing things into reality all of the sudden.

Of course I can't be sure what goes on at the higher levels, but my knowledge and experience of real-world "magick" plays into this. So I think a lot of it will be based on will power, the power of the mind to access these subtle energies to manipulate reality. Which as far as I know, no one is doing in real life on a scale like Malekith and Loki. It's definitely still magic, or movie/sci-fi magic

I think science and magic are all part of the same spectrum in the MCU. Just opposite ends. Or different points in the electro-magnetic spectrum/fields that only certain characters have access to or can sense/manipulate. Thor exists in a higher dimension than Midguard & has an enhanced connection to the fabric of reality. Kind of still in the physical side of the universe, yet able to transcend many dimensions--so almost like the 5th dimension onwards in string theory. There's predicted to be 10, 11, 12 or more dimensions, of which we can only sense our dimension. At the top of string theory there's one dimension above all. In Avengers 3 I'd reveal that there is a being who comes from the "one above all" dimension. Midgard exists mainly as a physical dimension. Hel is an intra dimension on the lower side of the world tree, at the roots. Asgard, Valhalla and some of the nine realms are on the higher side of things in the upper dimensions outlined by string theory. While Midgard exists in the third dimension. Niffleheim is the second or first dimension (making Hel an intra dimension at the roots of Yggdrasil, below Midgard). And Svartalfheim... well that will play into this. That's the land masses part. A lot of the dimensions above the third would be part of Asgard, as the 5th dimension would extend and be directly connected to the others. Relating to the nine worlds of Asgard. Some of the worlds can't be accessed directly from Midgard. But Asgard connects to the lower worlds at the base of Yggdrasil where Niddhogg chews on the roots.

Midgard is special. All the other realms have some sort of paths to each other along the world tree. The dark elves actually exist in part of Svartalfheim so they're in the higher 7th dimension of Asgard. Other realms are other places. I strongly feel the position of the nine worlds on Yggdrasil will directly tie into this and the merging of realities. Hela and Surtur are stuck at the roots of the world tree... gnawing away at its roots like Nidhogg... they want into the higher realms but Odin is stopping them... Malekith must travel to Midgard and open up another way into Asgard, since Midgard can be reached from Asgard. Because they're trapped in the lower, intra-dimensions of string theory, at the base of the world tree. They have to come through Midgard and Jane Foster... Then Darcy becomes Hela for a while leading into the next films.

Some of the lower dimensions start merging with Midgard as a way into the higher dimensions. Midgard is the middle of it all. A gate keeping Surtur and Hela down there.
Something with Malekith in the past triggered Odin trapping them in the lower dimensions for all eternity.

Hela needs Jane Foster & Malekith to break her and Surtur into the higher dimensions. Because Odin has already trapped them in the inner realms for all existence.
It's from the inside that hell begins to break loose and Malekith intends to raise it.

Last edited by LokiDionysos; 11-25-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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