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Old 11-26-2012, 04:01 PM   #282
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Default Re: Who would you let Joss Whedon kill in Avengers 2?

Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
Where in that scene did Fury even cite a numerical distance to which he felt the base's personnel should evacuate, much less some "random number," as you stated? He never said, "Go x number of feet/yards/miles to get clear of the blast radius." In fact, it was Agent Coulson who gave the order for personnel to evacuate, and he did so off-screen, so a distance was never specified. We don't know whether or not Selvig and the team of scientists had given an estimated safe distance or even whether a specific distance was ever given at all. You pulled that "random number" business out of the air because it never happened at all in the film.
Okay, then random place, or random whatever. The point was it was arbitrary. And since Coulson gave the order, what does this have to do with undermining Fury?

Yes, Fury cursed and defied the WSC, but do you even recall when and under what circumstances he told them that they had "a stupid-ass plan"? Let me refresh your memory: It was when they told him that they planned to drop a nuclear weapon on Manhattan, an island with 8 million residents, because they lost their **** over the Chitauri invasion. The WSC panicked and committed a war crime by using weapons of mass destruction against a civilian population. The nuke wouldn't have closed the portal anyway, since it was impervious to all forms of energy, so they would have slaughtered millions of people for nothing. Had Fury not defied the Council's order to destroy Manhattan and gotten Stark to intercept the nuke, all would have been lost. So sure, Fury cursed and defied a group of wannabe war criminals who were ****ting their pants over a crisis which they had done nothing to help avert. He was thoroughly justified in doing so.
So, in short, his job was never in danger. Gotcha.

Fury's plan to recruit the various heroes into the Avenger Initiative did make sense at the time he implemented it. He stated numerous times that SHIELD had become aware of the existence of beings with super powers on Earth. Some of those individuals had already caused massive problems. Johann Schmidt, Stane, Vanko, Emil Blonsky and the Destroyer had all come and gone, leaving devastation in their wake. Conventional weapons and soldiers had proven ineffective against superpowered menaces (the military was powerless to stop Blonsky, for instance). Fury, reasoning that there were other, perhaps bigger threats still lurking, chose to assemble the individuals who had been successful in defeating the criminals/villains/enemies who had already appeared so that they could fight those potential future threats. That's not "faith-based" decision making, it's advance planning to counter a threat that had already arisen more than once.

It should also be noted that the WSC's brilliant plan to create weapons based on the Tesseract was what led Thanos to turn his attentions upon the Earth. So not only was the Phase Two research futile, it also placed humanity in incredible peril. They couldn't have known that would happen, but still, it makes Fury's plans seem all the more reasonable and even prescient. Had Fury not assembled the Avengers, Loki and his army would have overrun the Earth. That wasn't the result of luck but of planning, as the "freaks" Hill and the Council were so disdainful of saved humanity.
Hmmm... You accuse people of being reasonable for taking into account things they couldn't have known. That's not how reason works. Prescient is the right word, but that's really just faith justified, isn't it?

You say his plan made sense? Even though Banner kills innocents whenever he Hulks out. Even though Stark is completely self destructive. Even though Cap was presumed dead until recently. Even though Thor wasn't even contacted or accessible. Even though Coulson who actually believed in heroes knew "This was never gonna work unless..." Even though each of these individuals' victories over other freaks of nature were obscene amounts of luck, even though they spent much of their time trying to kill each other, as expected based on SHIELD evaluations of them.

And when it was all said and done, when Hill, who by now understood that none of those facts mattered as they would in real life, as they would be prohibitive for any real military operation. When she asks how things will proceed his operational parameters are: "because we'll need them to..." like all of his lines, his actions are based on beliefs, not on facts. The world means to spin on. Because I believe in heroes. That's Fury over and over.

And she's satisfied. She's transformed from someone rational and pragmatic into someone who is perfectly content preparing for the next apocalypse by "just knowing" that they'll be back.

Thank goodness it's the movies.

X-Men TV Show Ideas
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."

Last edited by DrCosmic; 11-26-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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