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Old 12-01-2012, 10:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: A theory about an alternate TDKR with the Joker

Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I'm confused. How do we know that Crane was in Arkham? I understand he was put there in Begins but how do we know after he was caught in TDK that he was put back there? Of course, we can speculate, but I like proof instead
Wouldn't matter either way as Bane could bust out anyone he wanted by that point in TDKR, no explanation needed. Plus I really don't read too much into the cameo's of the Scarecrow in TDK or in TDKR as part of some great Shakepearan act by Nolan. He had him in there for pure fun and fan service. Both movies would have been just as fine without him.
Imo, Crane would have been in Arkham Asylum because he was a crazed man who created a gas that would bring out someone's greatest fears, as well as it's up in the air that he's even cured after being gassed himself in Batman Begins.

Also, while both of his cameos in TDK and TDKR could be viewed as just fun fan service, his cameo in TDK is also for continuity's sake since he went MIA after the events in BB and it was shown that Batman was still trying to clean up those events by bringing in any escapees from Arkham, which included Scarecrow.

Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
"I actually didn't like Crane showing up in TDKR as well because he would have been in Arkham Asylum and since there was nothing mentioned about TDKR, Crane's appearances just seemed off."

The lack of a mention of Arkham and him being there seemed off implies bad writing.
It would have helped in the reasoning of why Crane showed up, but it's not necessarily bad writing.

Why? Who's easier to control? A legion of insane criminals or sane ones?
You're asking this question even when I asked why Crane is even there to begin with, who's mostly likely insane?

Yes. But he was unaware of that.
And he's unaware of Bane wanting to destroy Gotham City which includes Crane himself. Just using Crane the same exact way, so how is it any better?

I never said they should and I would never want them to either. Then where would I be without having pages and pages of these fun multi quotes posts?
Probably being at a much peaceful place in these forums where you don't have to reply to multi-quote posts day after day, I know I would, but I try to keep up until I'm just too dead tired to reply.

Ok two things;

1. You can have all the theories you like. You just don't have anything from the movie that supports it regarding Batman and the 8 year gap. But you can believe what ever you want. My point is you are perfectly happy to apply a logic like that to one thing, but cannot imagine something so absurdly simple as breaking out one inmate from Arkham. You actually wanted to be spoon fed such a thing in the movie.
No support? Certain pieces of dialogue does support my theory, wild or not.

2. Crane serving as the Judge for residents of Gotham instead of just "anyone" or another LOS member makes more sense because Crane is a resident of Gotham and therefore is in a better position to pass sentence on other Gotham citizens. Second he is a cut above your average LOS member when it comes to intelligence. He's a doctor. He's a far smarter choice.
Passing what sentence though? Just tossing out the cops and mostly the rich citizens out unto the ice river. You have to be a Gothamite to pass such a predictable sentencing?

Why is that? Dent is mentioning that the Falcone empire lost it's leader when Falcone was put in Arkham. So that means someone had to step in and run everything.

That doesn't mean Falcone is still languishing in Arkham months later.
So you're saying he's only mentioning the few days Falcone was put away in Arkham, someone needed to get a hold of power quickly in a matter of days?

Yes it would, because it was Falcone's transfer to Arkham that made his position up for grabs. And most likely when Maroni stepped in to run things.

Remember this all happened in Begins in the space of a couple of days.
Exactly; a couple of days. I don't buy Maroni having to step up that quickly.

How were they pivotal to helping the League when Bane's plan was never ever reliant on them to begin with? They were helping the League because Bane set them free and armed them with guns.

It's simply a case of the more the merrier. Not a case of we need the numbers to run the city.
I say they were pivotal because once they became part of Bane's plan after finding out about the truth about Dent, these criminals were handed guns and went along with the LoS in patrolling/policing the city, escorting people unto the ice river, hunting down cops, etc. That to me, shows them that they were pivotal to a point that they became allies to the League in that regard even if not knowing about the League's true intentions.

But Anno, that is the same for all movies. Within days of TDK's release Ra's was compared to Joker. Sandman and Venom were compared to Doc Ock after Spider-Man 3's release etc.

It also happens with the movies right after release. Comparing which movie is better. It's the nature of the beast with superhero fans. They always compare.

Comparisons to the Joker were inevitable.
And making comparisons isn't even my point. I'm saying Joker would be compared EVEN more if he had some important plot with Batman, even with a cameo that'll tally up in his favor with still saying who is the better villain, even in the trilogy as a whole.

It's sillier to say it would happen based on no proof at all, or even past examples of where a villain cameo did that.
It's silly to say Joker would be the talk of TDKR even as a cameo because of simply it being Joker?

No, I'm not. I concede there would have been some buzz for Joker appearing in the movie again in any capacity. But to say a cameo would have dwarfed everyone else in the movie is the height of insanity.
You say some buzz, I say major buzz. I think it would indeed dwarf the amount of attention Bane would receive.

I am. That's why I'm confident in saying this. Unless you can give me some examples of your alleged scenario that would happen, because I've given you some examples of mine.
I can't give any examples as we've never had seen one of the greatest villains in a CBM show up in a cameo, which yes, would've create massive hype.

You mean Spider-Man 3? Wouldn't the fact that there is so little praise for the villains in it mean that even more praise would be given to Norman?
Would that much even be given to Norman who wasn't that great of a villain to begin with(imo)?

Well thanks for telling me what you think I would have kept doing. But I think I know myself better than you.
I concede there would have been some buzz for Joker appearing in the movie again in any capacity.
So you wouldn't have contributed to this then?

Norman in the Spider-Man sequels, Wolverine in First Class, Xavier in Wolverine etc.

All mega popular characters, but did you see everyone talking so much about them more than the majority of the main characters in the movies?
Popular comic book characters yes, but did any of them make as much buzz as Joker has in any CBM?

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